Convert midi to SID

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wolvie75
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Convert midi to SID

Post by wolvie75 » 09/08/2014 - 10:59

Hello everyone.
I'm trying to convert a midi file to sid, it is possible?
I read that there are programs like Midi2SID or Ear2sid, but I don't find it on the net.
Someone can help me?
Thanks
Last edited by wolvie75 on 09/08/2014 - 11:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Convert midi to SID

Post by Chris Abbott » 09/08/2014 - 11:21

It's possible to write by trying in different stuff to something like GoatTracker, I guess, but I'm not sure anyone's done it. You'd also have to have a set of GM-approximate patches for the SID tracker: again, not impossible (And actually sounds quite interesting!), but not something I'm aware anyone's done.
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Re: Convert midi to SID

Post by wolvie75 » 09/08/2014 - 11:30

can you explain to me how it works?

I explain to you my situation:
I have SID files, and I have converted it to MIDI.
Now, I can open it with Cubase, but I cannot recognize the correspondence of each track.
So, I would to assign to each track a commodore64 sound and then convert it to SID again to listen it.
Do you know if exist an easiest way to do it?

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Re: Convert midi to SID

Post by Chris Abbott » 09/08/2014 - 11:35

No one's written it yet. However, the killer is this: MIDI = 16 channels, SID = 3 channels.

In theory, this would have to function as an import to a tracker like GoatTracker that was already capable of creating music in a tracker-like environment and saving out an executable SID.

It would read the notes, channels, patches and MIDI signals, and transform them into a MOD-like structure, probably creating an inefficient song structure because MIDI has no clues about repetition.

Assuming you were importing into an environment that already had a soundset for the tracker which had been designed to approximate GM, you'd then just save out as an executable.

Basically, what you need is a MIDI import facility in GoatTracker (or, since MIDI2XM exists, an XM import).

But,as I said, voice limitations.

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Re: Convert midi to SID

Post by Chris Abbott » 09/08/2014 - 11:38

(now have read edited message)
That's impossible. The SID ->MIDI->SID path is way too destructive and convoluted to do that.

SID2MIDI does have a flag to create new tracks when it detects waveform changes that allows you to separate out different voices that share the same channel, but I'm afraid SID2MIDI will always result in tracks which are hard work.

The easiest way to do this is to ask me if I have a MIDI file of the tune you just converted. What tune were you working on?

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Re: Convert midi to SID

Post by wolvie75 » 09/08/2014 - 12:23

I converted: Commando and R-Type

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Re: Convert midi to SID

Post by blob » 09/08/2014 - 12:24

Hey, i'm blob, i am trying to help wolvie in starting remixing sid tunes.
his goal is getting phrases from classic tunes, bypass drum channels and add new drums.

we figured out this method: converting .sid files in midi then open it in cubase and redirecting midi channels to refx quadrasid then soloing voices and exporting them as audio tracks. then we realized there was no correspondence between original tune sounds and quadrasid presets. and we realized we should learn how to rebuilt patches on quadrasid. Since copying sid patches isnt acakewalk we went for a shortcut: sid to midi then opening it into cubase, exporting single midi tracks, re-convert in sid and the bounce audio from sidplay device.

the problem is that i have no idea if the sid had some sort of gm table for timbres. do the .sid file contains patch information that are streamed to the device (sidplay or sid itself)? and thanks again :)

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Re: Convert midi to SID

Post by Chris Abbott » 09/08/2014 - 12:41

The sounds in a SID file are integral to the player, and are inherently non-standard. A SID file consists of a player (which converts a note table and maybe some patch flags) into oscillator wibbles. SID2MIDI works by looking at the attack phases on each channel (to differentiate notes), and the pitch they average out it once vibrato is removed. There's absolutely no way to do what you're trying to do.

Are you basically just trying to get individual voice recordings from a SID? If you've got the MIDI file, why are you trying to recreate the sounds? Why not just sample individual voices from a SID and use those? If you're not trying to change the actual notes or voices, there seems to be no point in going through the MIDI stage at all. Time-stretch is good enough these days to allow you to get the sync right.
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Re: Convert midi to SID

Post by wolvie75 » 09/08/2014 - 12:52

Chris so, I we would to edit a sid file, not a midi file, how we should do it?
We have to use GoatTracker? And how can we import a SID into it?

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Re: Convert midi to SID

Post by Commie_User » 09/08/2014 - 15:02

And I've a question too - as MSSIAH seems to lack a basic MIDI-SID conversion, would anybody care to write a simple PC applet? Y'know, one which takes a 3-channel MIDI file, with almost no frills before spitting out a SID or self-running executable?

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Re: Convert midi to SID

Post by Analog-X64 » 09/08/2014 - 15:50

All this converting this to that seems a bit too complicated. Simplify things.

Although I haven't done many C64 remixes, this is how I've done them.

1. Grab the old Sidplay 95 file from here: http://www.gsldata.se/c64/spw/sidplayw.html
This player is not compatible with some of the newer sids in HVSC so you might need to use an older HVSC like #56 or something.

2. The old Sidplayer has a Mixer option which allows you to mute channels. So I mute the channels and save them out as .WAV file which the sidplayer allows you to do. So I endup with 3 .WAV Files.

3. Ear2Midi <-- That is not a real program its a joke. It means you use your ears to listen to the sounds and notes being played and recreate them on your favourite DAW. This is where the individual .WAV Files come in handy, as you can hear each note being played and get a clear indication of what is being played.

4. If you happen on a tune with difficult or very fast notes that you have difficulty reproducing, this might be a reason to use Sid2Midi.

I find with this method, you get more intimate with the original sid file and get to understand the subtleties of the original track, rather then try to convert Sid to a Midi and slap on instruments from a VST and call it a remix.
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Re: Convert midi to SID

Post by blob » 09/08/2014 - 16:33

Ho dear, that really solved our problems, it works, we were using the mac version and it does not have mixer function, now we used winebottler to transalate the exe file into mac executable and we could print it. and now we gonna push it into ableton. many many thanks that works lovelly, anyway if i can suggest try the quadrasid is very cheap and it really sounds nice. of course you dont have the harmonic distortion of -10db rca cables + tv speaker so it sounds really clear but a cheap mixer will do the job. big love.

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Re: Convert midi to SID

Post by blob » 09/08/2014 - 17:37

sidplay generats a very funny dc offset

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Re: Convert midi to SID

Post by Analog-X64 » 09/08/2014 - 19:59

One more thing, brows around KVR and you can get very good C64 ish sounding VSt's which are free

I'm not sure if you can use these, since you mention you are in a Mac environment.

http://www.kvraudio.com/product/basic-6 ... -la-mancha
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/quantum ... ne/details
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Re: Convert midi to SID

Post by Commie_User » 09/08/2014 - 21:40

3. Ear2Midi <-- That is not a real program its a joke.


Don't joke too soon. There's Celemony Melodyne, for all your demixing and MIDI conversion wants. Well, Midge Ure swears by it anyway.





Or, if you can't afford it , grab the basic free JUNCTION. That VST copies and converts your audio track to MIDI in realtime, in your DAW.

http://rekkerd.org/fretted-synth/

I've not tried the alternate, though: http://www.widisoft.com/english/download.html



Enjoy!

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