C64Audio.com returns 11th April!

[FFRenzy]

Hmm, I've nothing against 30 second tracks, but I'll need to set aside some time, which is sorely lacking. I guess this shop will be a marathon rather than a sprint.... I don't have to put 30 second clips for the bonus content, do I?

Nuts to the bonus stuff, but it would be handy to access previews for the main disc in each case.

I'll drop Darran a line.

Hmm, I guess this means rethinking those smileys again. I was trying to keep the screen width to 800 overall, but every smiley column adds another 18 pixels... anyone got an idea of an icon for "preview"?

Chris

some headphones maybe ? or a smiley wearing them ?
something like this :

[Kenz]

Hi Chris,

We use a util here at work that automatically rips / encodes and saves 30 second snippets from any CD you insert - you can even specify where the clips start (say, 1 min into the track) - it's a real time saver and means you can quickly put together sound samples of all yer CDs. I'll give you the details when I next speak to ya.

Kenz.

[Chris Abbott]

That's a nice smiley

The problem I have is that files fall into many categories:

1) Pay files you own
2) Pay files which are merely free (i.e. price=0)
3) Free files (which are often superceded by pay files for the same resource)...

Also, the files can fall into "purchaseable" (i.e. you can purchase that track on its own) and "non-purchaseable" (i.e. bonus material or songs which for licencing reasons I can only include with another purchase).

Also, there are many possible files for a track, not just one...

The way it used to work was that were was a "listen" button and an "own" button. The own button was either a cart or a tick, and the listen button downloaded either the first preview or the first full track. Then you've got a "price" column, and an "info" column, which actually takes you to the place where you can see all the files available.

If "listen" always had a headphone smiley (where there was something to listen to), is there any way to differentiate sensibly between a preview and a full track? Colour of smiley? Smiley with one headphone? Much smaller smiley? Different smiley altogether?

The cart icon would be replaced by a smiley icon... maybe if the smiley icon was clicked you'd go to the main track info (which would enable me to lose the "info" column). Or is there a better icon for "you own this and if you click me you can see all the files... hey, how about a treasure chest?)

Ideas welcome at this point!

Chris

[CraigG]

This all sounds terribly complicated to me. Why not just have two buttons: 'preview' and 'add to cart'? For items that aren't available on an individual basis, just rip-off iTunes and change 'add to cart' to 'album only', slightly more greyed out. For items that are free downloads, just change the price to 'FREE'.

Or am I missing something here? Even if someone adds a load of stuff to their cart that's free, using the same basic mechanism makes sense from a usability standpoint.

A picture says a thousand words, so:



Obviously, this is without the correct link colours.

[StormKeeper]

Thanks, though at the moment I'm getting that "BIT Live 1" feeling all over again: big posh place, and no people (well, there are people visiting, I can see them, but they're not buying). I still believed that giving people this kind of opportunity would result in more interest: loads more content, loads more opportunities to buy, offer more than the record companies, etc. I'm beginning to wonder....

All I can say is that it's lucky I was able to justify the time spent on that system to use for another website. There has to be a time when I can say "The website is fine, it's everything it should be. It's just no one's interested."

*sigh*

I'm very disappointed.

Chris

I can't afford to buy anything at the moment, but eventually I will, be it at the event or after it, and because the event is being held at London, I do have a little bit more money to play around with, seeing as I don't have to pay much for travel, and accommodation is covered too!

[Chris Abbott]

This all sounds terribly complicated to me. Why not just have two buttons: 'preview' and 'add to cart'? For items that aren't available on an individual basis, just rip-off iTunes and change 'add to cart' to 'album only', slightly more greyed out. For items that are free downloads, just change the price to 'FREE'.

Or am I missing something here? Even if someone adds a load of stuff to their cart that's free, using the same basic mechanism makes sense from a usability standpoint.

A picture says a thousand words, so:



Obviously, this is without the correct link colours.

First, tracks have more than one download. A given line on that table might have 10-15 downloads associated with it: sometimes more (for instance, Rambo on Project Galway has behind it most of the subtunes for that game in MP3 and FLAC).

Second, how to convey to someone they already own something? Although since this is using text, the text could be changed to "Full Track", but this would still only download the first download.

Mind you, if you changed "Track Info" to "Track Extras" or "Track Files"?

[edit: currently "free" stuff is downloadable without registering: in this scenario, the customer would have to place an "order" before getting it. Having said that, this "small text" thing has much going for it, such as (a) it matches what I'm doing with the buttons, (b) it looks like iTunes, and (c) you can convey more information in the same space. I'm guessing the "text" would be a button so the text didn't increase in size if you zoomed into the page...

Chris

[CraigG]

Right, I didn't understand how elements of the shop work. Anyway, some answers below.

First, tracks have more than one download. A given line on that table might have 10-15 downloads associated with it: sometimes more (for instance, Rambo on Project Galway has behind it most of the subtunes for that game in MP3 and FLAC).

You could just choose a preview for the main page that best represents the item in question. One thing I should probably note is that this 'multiple tracks' thing adds some serious value to certain elements of your albums, and yet I didn't have a clue about this even existing.

Exploring more, I see that the tooltip explains this information, but this doesn't work for anyone using Firefox (which crops tooltips after a few words), and so I would make this more explicit. State (on 'albums' where tracks have multiple files) something like: "Many track downloads include multiple files, offering even greater value—click 'track info' for more information". Alternatively, flag multiple-file tracks in some way, like with a star icon or something.

Second, how to convey to someone they already own something?

I'm not sure what you mean here. What does it matter if someone already owns something?

Mind you, if you changed "Track Info" to "Track Extras" or "Track Files"?

That's where a flag might come in handy. Perhaps leave it as 'track info', but make tracks with multiple files have a flag, with a key shown at the top of the track list.

currently "free" stuff is downloadable without registering: in this scenario, the customer would have to place an "order" before getting it.

Same as in iTunes—there are free tracks there each week, but you add them to the cart, same as any other track. The only difference is that the price you pay is zero.

Having said that, this "small text" thing has much going for it, such as (a) it matches what I'm doing with the buttons, (b) it looks like iTunes, and (c) you can convey more information in the same space. I'm guessing the "text" would be a button so the text didn't increase in size if you zoomed into the page...

My thinking is that it would be graphics-based, yes. Therefore, it would only zoom in browsers that zoom entire layouts (Opera, for example). I think with text you also have the advantage of making it so people don't have to wonder what something means. The cart icon is pretty ubiquitous, but others are less so. Despite Mac OS X being an utter mess these days regarding themes, it's still highly usable from a UI standpoint, and that's been carried over to iTunes. Apple's store isn't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot more usable and straightforward than the competition.

I should probably also point out that I'm not trying to barge in and run your show here, but seeing as I do a lot of work in usability when creating websites, I figured I could offer my 2p! If you want to talk about this, rather than bouncing emails around, drop me a line at the weekend (although not today—nasty deadlines are snapping at my heels).

[Chris Abbott]

Lol, we'll move this to private email then, but first...

You could just choose a preview for the main page that best represents the item in question. One thing I should probably note is that this 'multiple tracks' thing adds some serious value to certain elements of your albums, and yet I didn't have a clue about this even existing.

And there's a problem I have: I've put this information into a rotating banner at the top of the page, and in a message which rotates in the header.

Should I put this info as an extra line at the bottom of each track listing?

I'm not sure what you mean here. What does it matter if someone already owns something?

Because the icons would change to stop them buying it, and the status messages (price, title on preview button) would change to reflect the fact that the system knows they own that track.

Same as in iTunes—there are free tracks there each week, but you add them to the cart, same as any other track. The only difference is that the
price you pay is zero.

Not really the same, since iTunes forces you to register to preview tracks after a certain number of previews: and I can't get away with that. Also, I can't have a one-click purchase metaphor since I don't store the customer c/c details and don't have a continuous authority.

The main thing is that adding a free track to the cart means they have to go through the "view basket/checkout" thing. If the order is free then they then get kicked back to "My contents", but it's a bit of a rigmarole. The idea here is that if something is free it can be downloaded without adding to cart.

I should probably also point out that I'm not trying to barge in and run your show here, but seeing as I do a lot of work in usability when creating websites, I figured I could offer my 2p! If you want to talk about this, rather than bouncing emails around, drop me a line at the weekend (although not today—nasty deadlines are snapping at my heels).

[/quote]
No, I'm grateful for the assistance I've been getting. I'm in a real "wood/trees" situation.

Chris

[CraigG]

And there's a problem I have: I've put this information into a rotating banner at the top of the page, and in a message which rotates in the header. Should I put this info as an extra line at the bottom of each track listing?

Ask yourself this question: is the information important to the user, and does it add value to the site? If so, why 'hide' it away using a script that means the end-user might never see it? To put it another way: would you randomly hide the 'buy now' buttons or the 'login' link?

Because the icons would change to stop them buying it, and the status messages (price, title on preview button) would change to reflect the fact that the system knows they own that track.

Grey them out. Add an FAQ that explains how the site works. Alternatively, just grey out the purchase button and throw up an alert when someone tries to click it ("You already own this track!")

[Chris Abbott]

Some great ideas here which I'm still working on. I've tidied up the way failed orders work (they keep the cart full!), and reinstated Paypal.

I've also just finished adding to the database all customers since the dawn of time: and retrofitted them! (even if they bought in advance from BIT Live 2002!). So everybody has got what they bought with the email address they bought it from.

Now "all" I have to do *sigh* is link to the "customer profile" section (Which gives an order history and an opportunity to change the password)... I've got to send this mail out while there's still some time before BIT Live, much as I'd love to implement Craig's changes before that...

Chris

[omoroca]

If you're looking for downloads, the site has sort of a labyrinth character.

I'm missing a feature like "list all free downloads available for me", maybe "excluding stuff I already downloaded" or "excluding 30-second previews".

[Subzero]

I've also just finished adding to the database all customers since the dawn of time: and retrofitted them! (even if they bought in advance from BIT Live 2002!). So everybody has got what they bought with the email address they bought it from.
Chris

But what if they bought em under a different email address chris? The address registered on c64audio.com is now old, and I think when I bought loadsa stuff afore I was on an even OLDER email!!!

[Chris Abbott]

I've also just finished adding to the database all customers since the dawn of time: and retrofitted them! (even if they bought in advance from BIT Live 2002!). So everybody has got what they bought with the email address they bought it from.
Chris

But what if they bought em under a different email address chris? The address registered on c64audio.com is now old, and I think when I bought loadsa stuff afore I was on an even OLDER email!!!

Well, if people tell me the details I can resolve the accounts into one. I've got enough to do already without combing thousands of people trying to work out who are the same (especially when they use different name variants).

As for the labyrinthe character: let's say I put in a button saying "show only free stuff": That would probably hurt me a great deal?

I've got to have a chance to let people see stuff that isn't free, otherwise it's not a shop. "My content" does a pretty good job of displaying stuff you've bought, of course, but my price for letting people have all this free stuff (and for all the work I put into the way of presenting it) is having to see the paid stuff (which is pretty good too: "paid stuff" is NOT a dirty phrase).

I think the search engine does a pretty good job, anyway, and when I implement Craig's changes things will become a lot clearer.

But suppressing paid stuff? I've done some financially suicidal things in my time, and that might have been one of them...

I'd like to say that Omoroca has been a good customer over the years, so he's not just after the free stuff without supporting the site.

Chris

[omoroca]

I've got to have a chance to let people see stuff that isn't free, otherwise it's not a shop. "My content" does a pretty good job of displaying stuff you've bought, of course, but my price for letting people have all this free stuff (and for all the work I put into the way of presenting it) is having to see the paid stuff (which is pretty good too: "paid stuff" is NOT a dirty phrase).

I think the search engine does a pretty good job, anyway, and when I implement Craig's changes things will become a lot clearer.

But suppressing paid stuff? I've done some financially suicidal things in my time, and that might have been one of them...

I'd like to say that Omoroca has been a good customer over the years, so he's not just after the free stuff without supporting the site.

Chris

Oh thank you for the positive statement about me! *blush*

Concerning paid stuff suppression: The way I use your site is different. I usually don't go there saying "Let's listen to some stuff and if I like it, I'll buy it". It's rather either "Let's browse some free stuff and download it" or "Let's order a certain album and then leave". So either I intend to buy something already before logging in or I don't. And I usually don't change my mind while on the site, no matter if I see paid stuff or not. But perhaps that's only me, I don't know.

How about restricting the list-all-my-free-downloads feature to people who are logged in (e.g. who have already ordered something)?

[Chris Abbott]

I've got to have a chance to let people see stuff that isn't free, otherwise it's not a shop. "My content" does a pretty good job of displaying stuff you've bought, of course, but my price for letting people have all this free stuff (and for all the work I put into the way of presenting it) is having to see the paid stuff (which is pretty good too: "paid stuff" is NOT a dirty phrase).

I think the search engine does a pretty good job, anyway, and when I implement Craig's changes things will become a lot clearer.

But suppressing paid stuff? I've done some financially suicidal things in my time, and that might have been one of them...

I'd like to say that Omoroca has been a good customer over the years, so he's not just after the free stuff without supporting the site.

Chris

Oh thank you for the positive statement about me! *blush*

Concerning paid stuff suppression: The way I use your site is different. I usually don't go there saying "Let's listen to some stuff and if I like it, I'll buy it". It's rather either "Let's browse some free stuff and download it" or "Let's order a certain album and then leave". So either I intend to buy something already before logging in or I don't. And I usually don't change my mind while on the site, no matter if I see paid stuff or not. But perhaps that's only me, I don't know.

How about restricting the list-all-my-free-downloads feature to people who are logged in (e.g. who have already ordered something)?

I'll have a think about it. Since a lot of the intelligence about "who can download what free" is done in the PhP objects after the mysql retrieval, it means that potentially, searches where it has to loop through the entire resultset to work out whether it should be suppressed or not might be very expensive. Plus it means individual search results to cache for every user. Again, for free stuff it's very expensive

I think a lot of other people are "browsers": at the moment the smileys don't encourage previewing, which they will as soon as I stop posting and start working For instance, people might want to search for a specific game or person. People are very different

Chris