Working on a Sanxion Remix

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Xilukarim
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Working on a Sanxion Remix

Post by Xilukarim » 12/10/2014 - 20:24

Hello,

i am new here at remix64 (but i downloaded tons of remixes from remix.kwed.org since years). I am working on a Sanxion remix and it would be nice if some of you would listen to it for giving some feedback. Maybe some people here are tired of listen to the 1000th sanxion tune ;-) but it is one of my most favourites SID's ever, so i want to make my own remix. The style is electronic/trance.

I am not happy with the beginning (First 4/6 bars, first versions of the tune was without it, and it was not bad) and the ending (it doesnt fit to the rest). And while the third part (from 3:31 to 4:42) it is hard to build up the tension and where to set a highlight point, maybe it should be devided into two sections but where to break?

You can listen to it at soundcloud:

Greetings
Xilukarim

Who is Xilukarim? (from my profile at kwed):

I had a C64 since 1985 and from beginning i loved the sound of the breadbin. In the manual was a little programm for playing the tones by the keyboard that i liked, and then i listened to all of the wonderful tunes coming with the games. The kickoff however was the music by Chris Hülsbeck, who published his first track SHADES in the german 64'ER magazine which code I typed up. Something like that was rare heard on the C64 up to that time. Then he published his Music-Editor, that was the beginning to make music by myself.

My music-style is electronic, dance/trance. I am using Reason 5 for making all of my music (Remixes from all types of Music and also my own compositions). I am playing piano a little, but while music production i only use it to test some chords and riffs.

I like very much the remixes from X-formZ, Infamous and Hazel but also Visa Röster and Soundsosound.

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Re: Working on a Sanxion Remix

Post by Chris Abbott » 12/10/2014 - 20:55

My ears need accuracy in the lead melody line and chord sequences. I'm old fashioned that way...

Here's one I did earlier which seems to be in the same ballpark, so at least you know I know what I'm talking about...

Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?

Xilukarim
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Re: Working on a Sanxion Remix

Post by Xilukarim » 14/10/2014 - 20:55

What do you mean exactly with accuracy? I listened to your tune - it's good :-) - but it is'nt easy to get the difference. Could you give me an exampel where you miss accuracy? Maybe i found two little notes that could be incorrect. Could you confirm it?
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Re: Working on a Sanxion Remix

Post by AndyUK » 15/10/2014 - 2:03

I'm thinking theres one too many notes there thats all.. .. I had a quick go, this sounds a little closer?? It starts at the two notes you highlighted..

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Re: Working on a Sanxion Remix

Post by Chris Abbott » 15/10/2014 - 7:00

There's a lot more that needs correcting that that. I haven't got time to go through it, but here's some MIDI files I did.

http://www.c64audio.com/ringtones/sanxion/
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Re: Working on a Sanxion Remix

Post by Xilukarim » 16/10/2014 - 21:27

Chris, many many thanks for your midi's, it helped a lot and i saw a number of differences to my version. I got the notes from the sid by listening long ago and never compared carefully a second time up to now. Here is the new version. I changed the main theme and a part of the bass (while playing the main theme). At the ending now i fade out the main theme.


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Re: Working on a Sanxion Remix

Post by Chris Abbott » 17/10/2014 - 9:44

Much better on the main melody, though the 12th or 13th note in the main melody line is still out... and the second half is still quite a lot diffeent (I guess that wasn't in that particular MIDI file, sorry for that).

I think the 13th note should be the same as the 12th, not the same as the 14th.

Chris
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Re: Working on a Sanxion Remix

Post by Xilukarim » 17/10/2014 - 21:42

in german I would say "Muehsam ernaehrt sich das Eichhoernchen", in english something like "Little by little one goes far". Now I extract a more detailed transcription of the first break between main theme and the middle pad-part.


Notes sanxion first break.png
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Chris, the note you meant is the green marked note in my second posting, I overlooked it.
I guess that wasn't in that particular MIDI file, sorry for that
Does'nt matter, a little bit I should do myself ;-)

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Re: Working on a Sanxion Remix

Post by Xilukarim » 01/11/2014 - 0:06

I worked a bit on the remix and i think i am ready for release:



Changes are in the intro - I added a well known siren-effect and changed the fade-in base drum to a hihat fade-in, the breaks before and after the middle pad-part, and the ending of the long overdriven part. I removed the beta 1, so compared to the first attempt i changed the end to a fade-out of the main-theme.

Because of mixing most of the time using headphones (i am working in the late evening when my family sleeps), i would be pleased if someone could give some adwice for mixing-issues like loudness or equalizer etc.

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Working on a Sanxion Remix - Coworking?

Post by Xilukarim » 17/12/2014 - 23:58

Hello,

i published the Remix a few days ago, but the ranking is awful :-( . I know, my mixing abilities are not the best, but I want to learn, so i am humbly asking for coworking or someone who could have a look at it. I am using Reason 5, so everybody with it or a higher version should be able to give some advice. Feel free to contact me, every critism could help, even if you are thinking i am a hopeless case...

One thing in advance: I am sharing my house with my family and i have no room for mixing loud with speakers, so i have to use headphones most time, maybe this could be part of the problem.

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Re: Working on a Sanxion Remix

Post by Chris Abbott » 18/12/2014 - 8:02

My first remix was a MIDI file of Action Biker, and that wasn't great either. However in 1994 it was a novelty. In 2014 the listener is comparing you to around 1,000,000 other Sanxion Remixes.

Process the comments, but work on other stuff for a while, and come back to this in three months time. Then listen again, and you'll hear it this time from the listener's point of view. Then you'll know what to do.

If I was giving two pieces of feedback it would be: "put more stuff in, and find a big idea". When you spend all your time recreating the original tune, it feels like an achievement to you, but no one else will think of it anything special, they take it for granted, even though as you've seen, it's really hard.

The remixes which get red faces are either stunningly performed, or have a big idea which sweeps the listener along. A remix which simply plays the original with different sounds is more of a starting point for something bigger than a finishing point.

But this isn't a technical problem anyone can really help with: it's an idea problem, and they can only come from you.

Chris
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Re: Working on a Sanxion Remix

Post by Xilukarim » 18/12/2014 - 14:11

Hello Chris,

thank you for your answer. I didn't expect a orange or red face for this, because I know the other great remixes of sanxion. But, in my honor opinion, if I read this shouts :
"Change some instruments and instrument volumes to improve the overall balance of the mix maybe? Now it's a bit harsh on your ears."
"Work on the mixing, the instrumentation, the balancing, and you'll have something more enjoyable to listen to."

than I read there some tasks for the audio engineer. Maybe the shouters itself could say something more about it?

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Re: Working on a Sanxion Remix

Post by Chris Abbott » 18/12/2014 - 19:07

Well, then there's an immediate problem to solve (technique), as well as a more medium-term one (ideas and content). The thing is: why didn't the remix you created sound harsh to your ears, when it sounds harsh to everyone else's? You need to experiment with EQ, changing patches, etc. yourself to learn. Why not try drastically different patches to see how stuff sounds? Twiddle some knobs. Trial and error is your friend, but if your ears really won't tell you honestly when something is sounding unpleasant, then not much is going to fix that problem.

I've got nothing else to add, really.
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Re: Working on a Sanxion Remix

Post by Doddsy » 19/12/2014 - 18:57

Mixing is a part of the process that I still find stressful to do - I'm more of a musician than a producer but sometimes we got to wear more than one hat so to speak. Using just headphones is a def no no. You would be surprised at how the sound palette changes when you're mixing sounds together. I suggest you get some decent monitors and you don't need it to be loud; just give yourself an overall idea of how it sounds. Then when you have time to yourself mix it down and refer to it the next day or when you have time to yourself again - you'd be surprised at how it sounds with a fresh pair of ears.
I'd say you have picked a very difficult genre to remix in - Dance Music. It's developed along way since it's humble roots and you really need to be on top of your production game these days and listeners know what sounds good and current.

Experience is the key to making a good remix. I've been remixing for 10 years now and I'm still learning, still chasing that buzz of getting a sid remix sound great.

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Re: Working on a Sanxion Remix

Post by Xilukarim » 25/12/2014 - 22:00

Thanks for the answers. I will leave the sanxion remix for a while (few weeks), and then try again. Meanwhile there is another remix (a suggestion in this forum) I will try.

You will hear from me ;-)

Xilukarim

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