Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

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nada
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Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

Post by nada »

I've been browsing the new remix releases on the site (haven't done that for a while) and I must say I came across some really nice stuff; there are remixes and renditions encompassing many genres and some of them are very good.
Yet, what's stricken me as really peculiar is the criteria on which some people base their voting. You get low votes (i.e. that green or grey face icon) accompanied by comments such as "not my style"! How objective is that!
My opinion is that If it isn't your style, simply don't vote. Style, execution and/or even atmosphere are elements that should be considered separately, instead of ditching a jazz remix, for example, solely because it is not "your style".
In the same respect, I could easily ditch a trance or a metal remix, simply because I don't listen to the particular genres!
I'll give you a personal example to make it clearer: I never liked thrash metal or anything harder than that. It's impossible for me to listen to it. However, I can't say that it isn't well played! I've heard songs by Slayer that made me think "wow, that's perfectly played, ingenious indeed". Style doesn't matter because a person that listens to music a lot (and I believe there are many in this site) can tell if something is well made or not! How about voting for the effort then, instead of boasting about our taste?


BTW, the thought came to me while browsing Rune-Bertil's tracks
Last edited by nada on 15/02/2011 - 16:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

Post by Makke »

I agree with you, nada. It's been an increasing trend over the past few years. A larger quote of the voters go more by heart than on technical merit. So we see an increase in "rap/metal/symphonic stuff suck!" type of comments.

The reasons are probably many, but I'm sensing that less votes are coming from active musicians and more from passive consumers. And by that I don't want to speak less of the passive consumer. I just tend to find that if you're a creative person yourself, and know how it feels to have your work cast on the rubbish heap on subjective grounds such as personal taste - rather than a more objective look at the work you put in - you tend to look deeper at the song rather than just go "A polka?! Sod this!" That being said, I know there is no strictly objective way to judge music, but isn't that what makes it great in the end?

This means we see an increased spread in votes - some tracks almost have the exact same amount of every grade of vote, which is a bit bizarre! As an artist I find it frustrating that people feel the need to vote for songs made in genres they detest. It's a bit petty, considering this is a small community, and the bad votes have a big impact on the over all score. Personally, I'd just skip the track and forget about it!

On the other hand, you can't stop this kind of voting. And I don't want to stop anyone from voicing their opinion, small-minded or not. But it is annoying when the votes and comments say more about the voter than about the remix.

But what can you do? And frankly, I stopped looking at the scores long ago.
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Re: Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

Post by SarahKreuz31 »

nahhh,I guess it`s okay that People vote even for the kind of Music that isn`t their style. That would just mean I could only vote for Rock & Metal Tunes, since this is the Music I`ve been listening too - since I`m 13 or 14. I simply don`t like trance, Hip Hop or even Jazz. So it`s kinda hard to satisfy me with a Track in these musical directions. But if you (as a Musician) manage to put a smile on my Face with a Turrican-Trance-Remix, you surely can believe that your Remix is kinda special.

There`s no doubt that effort is put in each and every Track - but there`ll be always different tastes that manipulates a Vote. I simply don`t vote for effort - I vote how the Music touches me. If we had to Vote only for the Effort, each and every Track must`ve been an "orange" Smilie.
The only Style that makes us all equal is the "Computer Music" in general. In my opinion this one`s a Genre for itself (and loved by Metal-Maniacs as well as Techno-Freaks). It`s up to the Musician to enter a Sub-genre of this ComputerMusic (Metal, Jazz, whatever) - but don`t expect only Jazz-Lovers are listening to your Track, if ya blow the Trumpets. ;)

So....Freedom vor Votes IMO.

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Re: Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

Post by nada »

I certainly agree with the comments above. But it's getting harder and harder to come across someone who takes effort, arrangement and ability under consideration so as to vote for a track more on the objective side. It is indeed that "What? Polka? Sod this!" attitude that can be quite disorienting to a new visitor and frustrating to the remixer. I mean, there should be hundreds of great tunes in here gone unnoticed...

Makke, you're right saying that less votes come from musicians and more from consumers but, on the other hand, I believe that music (in general) should also apply to larger target groups such as people without any particular music knowledge of inclination but with an eagerness to be introduced to some new sounds. It's a shame that some bad comments hamper creativity and the spread of the scene.
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Re: Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

Post by SarahKreuz31 »

Talking about Voting ; this edited Musician-commentary over here made me laugh -> http://www.remix64.com/track/gibs/the_h ... ent_mix_2/

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Re: Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

Post by BeeZerk »

There will never be an objective opinion reviewing any kind of art. Either you like it or not. Subjective all the way.
You also buy/pay for music you like, not for music you dislike.
Some people forget that the work in here is offered for free, i would be ashamed to vote bad for something that is meant as a gift (either "good" or "bad")

Constructive critic is always welcome, it helps people deveolp themself further. But what should do a musician do with a vote like "not my style"? Change the style because someone don't like the present one? Kinda weird.

Someone nicked RemixFan wrote once on one of my tracks: "BeeZerk Style, hate it" lol, what will the author saying me with such a statement? Should i never make music again because my own style or my prefences in music are expressed/reflected in my own music? absurd.

I think too many people take this place for too granted, which is imho always a bad. If free-music has no longer acceptance it will run dry.

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Re: Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

Post by SarahKreuz31 »

BeeZerk wrote:Someone nicked RemixFan wrote once on one of my tracks: "BeeZerk Style, hate it" lol, what will the author saying me with such a statement? Should i never make music again because my own style or my prefences in music are expressed/reflected in my own music? absurd.
Ha,yeah,that`s a weird comment, you`re right. Such things are just...Bullshit :evil: .I wish I could say, he could`ve had a bad Day and wasn`t in the "right mood" to comment (or whatever...) -but,well. this ain`t the first Time, it ain`t a gaffe.
I read something about a Bullet who should be shot, in a Remix from "Pie VS Pie", from the very same User. Just pulled out a "WTF!?" out of my mouth. But it has been deleted...fortunately. First thought was that this comment would`ve something to do with the Tune itself (it has a "Western-Scenario" as an Intro) - but, nope, this Message was clear. Even for those who don`t have English as their native Language. :/ (So this Bullet wasn`t really meant for the Song itself...) Well, RKO/Amigaremix isn`t YouTube...It`s good to see some comments got deleted, to keep this place nice and respectful.

None of us is perfect with this "constructive critism". And surely it`s kinda hard to give a good feedback within these 2 Sentences you`ve been given in the Comments. And it`s been twice as hard if you`re not a Musician and/or if English isn`t your native Language,to describe the things that the Music has given you/or given you not. But...really, I just think it`s the wrong way to give a Tune a better Rating just because it`s for free - or manipulate the Vote due to the effort that has been put into the specific Track.
BeeZerk wrote:I think too many people take this place for too granted, which is imho always a bad. If free-music has no longer acceptance it will run dry.
I don`t see a "taking for granted" by those who Rate/Comment. Even by this RemixFan-Guy, who`s -no doubt about that- coming along with some strange comments. Well; you simply DON`T vote/comment, if you don`t care. You just visit RKO/Amigaremix,download the latest Files and get the fuck off ;). And that`s it. There are 1000+ Downloads on RKO within a Week. If it`s a popular Track. Sounds like If only 10% of these people would Vote/Comment it would be a fuckin` mess. :lol: `cause there would be tons of people who would Vote WRONG in your opinions. ;)

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Re: Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

Post by Doddsy »

Its nice to get recognition for your work but If I get a few green faces It doesn't bother me that much as long as someone likes my work and it eventually outweighs the few that don't then thats good enough for me. Personally I think green comments are voted to pull down the rating because of jealousy or maybe they don't want that track above theirs in the chart placing. Fortunately this has been sorted with the new system in place.

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Re: Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

Post by kjetiln »

SarahKreuz31 wrote: I simply don`t like trance, Hip Hop or even Jazz. So it`s kinda hard to satisfy me with a Track in these musical directions. But if you (as a Musician) manage to put a smile on my Face with a Turrican-Trance-Remix, you surely can believe that your Remix is kinda special.
I guess my Lost Patrol 2008 Trancefloor remix is special, then :)

I just get a good laugh when someone does that to me. I only make trance (after I stopped making remixes), and I intend to satisfy those who likes trance. Of course it is a great bonus if I can get a metal fanboy to enjoy my tune as well :)

I guess you have the sort of people that define a c64 remix as just that - a modernized version of the original tune, that still sounds like the original c64 tune. Many remixers, including myself, don't remix that way. We take a tune and completely make it our own with our own favorite style. I have noticed that some remixers are better to take a tune and improve on it in the same style, or find a style that fits, even if the remixer don't normally do that style. They will probably get an overall better vote from everyone, while I will get honest votes from those who is into my style, and not so good votes from those whot does not appreciate my trance. I can live with that :)

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Re: Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

Post by SarahKreuz31 »

kjetiln wrote:I guess my Lost Patrol 2008 Trancefloor remix is special, then :)
You bet it is. :wink: Only DJ Tom is quite on a par with his "Lost Patrol" Remix. (but...well,that`s only my opinion)
kjetiln wrote:I only make trance (after I stopped making remixes), and I intend to satisfy those who likes trance.
I just don`t get it why people simply stop making Remixes (C64,Amiga - whatever). Like you. Like Daxx.
I`m listening to Remixes since the early 90`s and still I`m not sick of it. I was collecting Mod`s on the Amiga back in these days. And in the late 90`s the "Aminet" was a rich source for Remixes as well. (of course most of these Remixes/Remakes were done in Protracker/Fasttracker or anything similar - we reached a higher Level since then compared to a Site like "RKO" and their 320 kbps MP3-Remixes :D )
So how come a Remixer could get sick of Remixing? Is it just due to the Votes? is it the aspect "Time",just because he`s busy and involved in some other Projects?
So remixing is some kind of seedy jacket that you can throw away after using it?
What I wanna say is: well, I`m still in love with Remixes/Remakes. And I guess that will never change.
It`s pretty sad to see someone like "Daxx" has left the (RKO-) Building,with his outstanding Remixes. :sadnod:

Bah, I`m fuckin` whiningly. Don`t listen to me. :/ :lol:
Last edited by SarahKreuz31 on 22/02/2011 - 12:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

Post by LMan »

I guess it's the urge to evolve artistically and create something very own.

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Re: Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

Post by dan gillgrass »

Makke wrote: The reasons are probably many, but I'm sensing that less votes are coming from active musicians and more from passive consumers.
Remember when the chat room first started and you may have only had about ten people in there.... nine would have been musicians and one odd idiot (*cough*). Now it's what you say. Same as Slay Radio, at one point it was only hitting 50 listeners which would have been mostly those musicians but now it's over 200 listeners a show.
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Re: Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

Post by SarahKreuz31 »

Yeah, 200+listeners a Show sounds really bad. My condolence for the Staff (we all hope things are getting better and you`ll reach again 50) :lol:







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Re: Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

Post by NecroPolo »

Connect the columns :)

a. 'SID in remix?!?!? BLASPHEMY!!!' ______________1. mother-in-law arrived yesterday
b. 'I HATE that instrument! DROP DEAD!'__________2. noticed rash in the morning
c. 'Vocals in the remix? GO DO YOUR DOGGIE!!'_____3. missed sex last week
d. 'No vocals? DO YOUR DONKEY, TOO!'____________4. Napoleon syndrome
e. 'I hate that style! F' U'!'_______________________5. it's so small
f. 'I hate that SID! DIE SCUM!!!'__________________6. did doggie
g. 'Hey that's overrated! DAMN YOU ALL!!!'_________7. did donkey
h. 'Hey that's not underrated enuff! HELL!!'_________8. ass was reamed out by boss today
i. 'What did you do with this song?!?!? TWERP!!!'____9. flopsy
j. 'I don't know you but I hate you! GO DOWN!!!'____10. missed sex last month

I hope this will let you put these comments where they belong ;)

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Re: Voting for a remix: objectivity and the like

Post by FFRenzy »

NecroPolo wrote:Connect the columns :)
...
...
This forum REALLY needs a LIKE button :D
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