1942 (Orchestral Arrangement)

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MFE
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1942 (Orchestral Arrangement)

Post by MFE » 21/06/2005 - 10:09

I've never seen the movie 633rd Squadron nor heard it's score, so this version of 1942 will hopefully sound more faithful to the SID than anything else.

It features all 3 subtunes of the 1942 SID file. I don't know whether it will be featured on RKO or not... Ball's in Jan's court for that.

http://www.dolphinwave.org/elsol/1942(Orchestral).mp3

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Post by Paul Tankard » 21/06/2005 - 14:21

beautiful!



That's all I can say really, more please :)
I tried, honestly I did.

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Post by Aero » 26/06/2005 - 23:35

I haven't heard the sid version (yet) but I love this :D
Keep up the good work!

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Post by tas » 27/06/2005 - 3:47

Impressive work.

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Post by LaLa » 03/07/2005 - 1:00

All those people who voted "outstanding" for this remix on RKO should stand up and explain their vote to me. Or at least they should listen to ONE symphonic piece played by a REAL orchestra before casting their vote.

No offense, Miguel, I think the arrangement is spot on, but at some points I found it painful to listen to the overly synthetized sounds used in your remix. For example, the orchestra hits at 0:16 sounds really ugly and the brass section after that sounds very unrealistic. I know, I know, buying a really good orchestral sampler CD can be really expensive - I just call it as I hear it.

On the plus side, the oboe (or clarinet?) starting at 2:29 is quite nice.

Again, the arrangement is great and if it was played by a real symphonic orchestra, I'm sure this would sound awesome - I am just stunned that so many people voted "Outstanding" for this remix despite it's very obvious shortcomings. Some even went as far as calling this the "best remix of the year by far" (emphasis by me). BY FAR??? Gimme a break! Whaddahell is he smoking?

Most of the time I find that my vote more or less agrees with the average, which is why I was surprised to find out that in this case it didn't.

Anyway, Miguel, that should explain my lonely "Good" vote. :)
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Post by tas » 03/07/2005 - 1:40

Well, since not everyone actually owns an orchestra i think it's suffice to say he's done a pretty great job with what he's got.

An outstanding vote isn't always about using the correct sounds but it can be down to the enjoyment you gain from the piece. It's a bit like Glyns firelord compaired to Markus Schneiders work.

Glyn's firelord just sounds great and is addictive to listen to where as Markus Schneiders sound a little more real but somehow as yet doesn't captivate me in the same way.

It's a bit like compairing Tubular bells 1 to Tubular bells 2. Tb1 is possibly one of the greatest instrumental albums of modern times yet to quote Oldfield "I didn't even have time to tune my guitar". and admits openly that the album didn't sound like what he wanted it to sound like and hence he remade the album in 2000 and something because he had personal issues. Despite that TB1 got to number 1 and stayed there for 18 month in the uk. tb2 is technically far superior in sound quality yet warts and all TB1 will always be THE ALBUM for oldfield fans - infact many like the warts on it.

Although this mix is classed as orchestral i'd like to think it's rather the style thats orchestral and not clarity of soundbank.

As you say not everyone can afford expensive sound libaries so sometimes you have to look past that and see the arrangement. As you say Technically its not the best orchestral piece in the world but that doesn't mean it can't achieve an outstanding if you simply just love the piece.

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Post by MFE » 03/07/2005 - 3:36

While I appreciate you stepping up to my defence, Tas, LaLa does raise a good point about the mix.

I didn't spend hours tweaking this one as I would have other pieces that are used for more commercial purposes, and as a result a lot of the delivery of the samples comes out rather unnaturally, something I am quite aware of, but honestly don't have the time to work upon.

However, as for it sounding too "synthey": These are all samples of the real deal, recordings of actual single and unison orchestral instruments, that on the original outlay cost me about $500 AU to purchase; none of the samples are synthesized in the classical sense of the word. What probably makes them sounds less realistic is my lack of attention to subtle dynamic effects and expression.

A friend of mine, who just completed his Masters thesis in some fantastic new computerised composition techniques, is about to lay down $8,000 US for a 240 Gig sample bank of 24 bit/96kHz orchestral samples, which includes software that he has written his own modules for, for interpolating and interpreting detailed MIDI information and manipulating the samples in a fashion that is indistinguishable from a real orchestra. I'd love to have that money to spend, but I have to make do on my budget as a new graduate vet. Music takes a back seat in my life to more important things.

But for total of about 9 hours work in my spare time, I think the mix turned out okay. If there's any reason I would mark it down, it would be because it is not a remix of a purely SID piece of music, an error on my own part, and one that I would happily accept the consequence of a lower rating for.

Still, all opinions are valid; you can't please all of the people all of the time :wink:

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Post by tas » 03/07/2005 - 8:34

Well, i wasn't really defending you mate ;)

I was defending myself really since lala quoted a remark i made ofwhich i still stand by because in my opinion i have the right to do and in my opinion i personally believe to be true. (and no i havn't been smoking anything (A comment which i find rather distasteful)).

You have the right to disagree with me Lala, but you have no right to insult my view.

Funny thing is that seeing as the mix currently stands at number 1 the comment "Best remix of the year by far" obviously shows that its a valid coment but even then, thats hardly the point.

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Post by ifadeo » 03/07/2005 - 11:24

a quote by joe meek

"If it sounds right, it is Right!"

i love it!

btw. every orchestra sounds different, like every musican... and that's good! :wink:

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Post by LaLa » 04/07/2005 - 7:26

First of all, Tas, my apologies if you found my "smoking" comment insulting, that was not my intention at all, of course. I used the expression not in the literal sense. Also, tolerating opinions is a two-way road: it also means people should tolerate opinions of their opinions. :) (Which you actually did, BTW.)
Tas wrote:An outstanding vote isn't always about using the correct sounds but it can be down to the enjoyment you gain from the piece. It's a bit like Glyns firelord compaired to Markus Schneiders work.
Well, Tas, I think this is the fundamental difference between your vote of "outstanding" and mine. And because of that I tend to vote "outstanding" rather sparsely.

I agree with you in that an outstanding vote should be given only to a piece that gives you total enjoyment - but for me that enjoyment consists of many things. I hardly ever vote "outstanding" for a piece that has potential. It has to be actually good, that is, it has to have the right arrangement, the right mixing, the right instruments, etc. And I found Miguel's remix lacking in some of those areas, as I pointed out in my previous post.

These days you don't have to have expensive stuff to create realistic sounding orchestras - but then you should be prepared to invest time and effort into making your stuff sound better. To me it was obvious that Miguel didn't do that - and he admitted it, too. Thus my lower score.

Not having the right sound-making equipment was a valid excuse for SID composers, but IMHO it shouldn't be valid for SID remixes. And if that means that no budget-composer will ever garner an "outstanding" vote from me, so be it.
Tas wrote:Funny thing is that seeing as the mix currently stands at number 1 the comment "Best remix of the year by far" obviously shows that its a valid coment but even then, thats hardly the point.
Fair enough. It won't make me change my vote, though, nor my opinion.
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Post by tas » 04/07/2005 - 10:53

I respect that, i am also aware of it's downfalls but something about this mix has brought me much enjoyment. i've played this mix more times than i have any other mix of this years offerings because i simply enjoy it despite it's obvious downfalls.

I understand your point of view and can see why you feel it should only have a good vote. I know a lot of people have issues with orchestral music not sounding totally like the real thing for me it's not such a big issue.. Maybe it's a new genre "synth orchestral" or something ;)

I think the arrangement is spot on and it acheives exactly the right feel for the sid. It has potential and the arrangement would suit an orchestra perfectly and for these two reasons i vote it as "outstanding"

1) I simply enjoy the mix more than i have enjoyed many others, so for me it's my personal fave mix of the year.

2) Potentially the arrangement is near perfect imho.

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Post by Rafael Dyll » 04/07/2005 - 13:22

Tas wrote: Maybe it's a new genre "synth orchestral" or something ;)
Well ironically, Lala's comment about my X-Out track some years ago was one that headed in the same direction - something to the extent of "doesn't sound orchestral", whereas in fact my take on the tune was to make it sound like it was *not* distinctively orchestral. And the mix is still there at No.2 of all time in the Amiga charts, so that must mean that most listeners like that type of sound. Kind of like what Neil said here, calling it "synth orchestral". And, incidentally, if Neil's suggestion to embrace this new genre is in fact made official, I want to claim having made the first remix to have been that. :wink:

*takes cover*

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Post by MFE » 04/07/2005 - 14:23

I think next time I'll hire an orchestra, to satisfy the "purists" here :wink: That, or I'll completely scrap any synthetic orchestral effort and do my next piece in nothing but acapello doo-wop :twisted:

Seriously, I'm not worried about the opinions, for most of them are valid. If you like it as it is, good for you. If not, good for you. I'll reserve my more careful composition efforts for those who are actually paying me for that particular service. What I post here is something I'm doing out of nostalgia, not out of a driving desire to achieve remixing perfection; in all honesty, remixing I find to be the cheapest and least creative method of music writing out there, simply because all the ideas and concepts are handed to you on a silver platter. No matter how far you take it, manipulate it, develop upon it, and deliver it, it's never truly your creation. It's bloody hard to come up with something truly original, and I find that endeavour far more satisfying and worthy of spending more time and effort upon when it comes to quality.

Let's keep it friendly, folks! Let people have their opinions, justify them if you must, but let's not belittle the decisions of others.
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Post by Chris Abbott » 04/07/2005 - 15:20

Au contraire, I've always found original stuff to be easier, since you can do whatever comes to mind without having to worry about anyone else peering over your shoulder: and it's very hard to insert yourself into another's ideas creatively without ruining the original ideas: it's a very useful discipline to be able to do that properly: to take proto-ideas and create a complete work out of them.

You might also want to regard your freely released tracks as promos for your skills and make them as good as possible: you never know when a source of work might download a track from RKO: as well as the payoff in even more kudos from c64 remix loving population.

Chris

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Post by MFE » 04/07/2005 - 16:48

Chris Abbott wrote:Au contraire, I've always found original stuff to be easier, since you can do whatever comes to mind without having to worry about anyone else peering over your shoulder: and it's very hard to insert yourself into another's ideas creatively without ruining the original ideas: it's a very useful discipline to be able to do that properly: to take proto-ideas and create a complete work out of them.

You might also want to regard your freely released tracks as promos for your skills and make them as good as possible: you never know when a source of work might download a track from RKO: as well as the payoff in even more kudos from c64 remix loving population.

Chris
The only problem being that I'm not looking for any more work as it is :lol: The people who do request my musical skills are are those who pretty much already know me and with whom I have firm ties with, a dependable relationship. And music composition and mixing is something that takes a back seat to my current work as a veterinarian. As for the additional kudos... well, all the ego stroking in the world isn't going to pay my bills, so I'm happy with a little less kudos :wink:

I do understand where you are coming from with your comments, though, and I would heartily recommend that anyone who does make a living from their music, or intends to, do as you recommend. It is, indeed, how I scored a couple of my more secure composition jobs!
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