My new Ghosts 'n Goblins remix

[nada]

Hi there guys, just to let you know about the release of my new Ghosts 'n Goblins remix, it's called "Bossa 'n Goblins" and you can find it here: http://www.remix64.com/tune_348400.html

Unfortunately, I was really sorry to find out that some people believe I am using software for the guitar and the bass. I had been working with great zeal at home, playing and recording guitar and bass, only to receive degrading comments. This is really frustrating and I wasn't expecting such a reaction.

I am really pissed off.

If, indeed, any of you believes that my remixes are not original, then I will have to stop uploading my work to RKO or anywhere else. I do not have any commercial aspirations, I am only a guitar geek who likes making music.

[Romeo Knight]

Hi Nada,

I just gave it an orange smiley!
To calm you a bit down - I didn't think that guitar and bass are samples or loops but I can understand why some people said this: Because they're played so bloody perfect and well in time and the whole thing grooves like a hell cos of that. This is actually not a reason to get pissed off, don't you think so?! I'd see it as a compliment.
And in fact the drum programming is done f*cking perfect, too, so one can't actually say if it's programmed or played.
That said, taken either this or that way, everything looks cool here IMO.
(I'd give it a red one but I missed a bit too much of the GnG spirit and its spooky instruments.)

[Chris Abbott]

There have been situations like this before, where a person recreates something so perfectly and painstakingly, that it sounds like they took the easy option instead, such as Tonka's Palace Gardens Loader, or Wizball 2000 (where all sounds were recreated from scratch, but it actually sounds really really like the SID).

I don't think this is the fault of the listener, though: bossa nova obviously is a very stylised and recognisable artform, so people would tend to assume that if you hear a Bossa Nova rhythm that it was produced from a keyboard: not that someone actually bothered to deconstruct the artform, play it live, put it all together from scratch and make it sound authentic.

It's often the case that the things you put the most work into in a remix are overlooked or misunderstood, though. Happened to me all the time.

Chris

[nada]

Guys, you are absolutely right. What pisses me off though is that some people do no care to read the tune info (Id3v).

The drums I make are programmed (I am not a drummer) and I try to make them sound as real as possible. But, guitars and bass are played by me. How can it be so hard to realise that? They are not perfect, they are frequently out of time (slightly but recognisably)... I believe that some people make degrading comments on purpose (not about my remixes only, but about anyone;s remixes in general). My question is: how can they be that sure about their verdict?

[trace]

My question is: how can they be that sure about their verdict?

You can't

If someone likes for example Hardrock and vote on a Trance remix and say "This is not my kind of music so i put on a puk'ing face "
then I say, DON'T VOTE on that remix!

If a preson votes it should be on a how good is it remixed and so on, not on what music style you like. THAT irritates me!

[Romeo Knight]

We had this discussion a few times before - there are a lot of controverse things that can be discussed about shouts and votings in general but in the end you simply can't change anything - people are like they are.
@nada: I never read ID3Tags. If I want the people to have background info about my tunes I write it into the tune info page.

[Razmo]

And what's wrong with programing accoustic instruments anyway? ... I don't give a damn about how the music was made, as long as it was at least played on live accoustic instruments by YOURSELF, or programmed note by note via MIDI by YOURSELF...

Once again I get the feeling, that a lot of people find electronically programed music a "lesser artform", and it makes me SICK! Why all this "honor" being able to play a bass or guitar?... what about those who play the keyboard? Is this the good ol' debate of Live vs. Electronic? ...

Anyway, if you put out stuff on RKO, you'd have to be prepared that you'll get loads of different responses and smileys... My advise is: focus on the smiley you got most off... the rest are usualy those who do not like your style of music, or have a very personal bond with the original. Very often, something you feel was right in your tune, is seen as wrong by others, but hey! I make music the way I want it to sound, and if people will have fits about it... I'll let them... even if it's annoying robot noises!

And somethin' I always tell myself when a score goes "bad" in the votings: It's not ME as a musician they are "attacking"... it's that one composition... of you go with the next, and see if things change!

[Romeo Knight]

And what's wrong with programing accoustic instruments anyway? ...

Nothing, as long as it sounds good what in many cases just isn't possible due to the lack of expensive sample libs and/or programming skills.

Once again I get the feeling, that a lot of people find electronically programed music a "lesser artform"

It's not but in the end each individual consumer decides for himself.

Why all this "honor" being able to play a bass or guitar?... what about those who play the keyboard? "

Nothing is wrong with playing keyboards but IMO there's indeed a difference to those who "only" program their music (maybe using a keyboard).
The "honor" you're talking about is the fascination for the performance of people who devoted a large amount of lifetime to mastering a musical instrument and their ability to express themselves intuitive through it.

That's why.
(To keep things clear, I don't think programmed music is a "lesser artform", it only misses this certain aspect I described above)

[Razmo]

Nothing is wrong with playing keyboards but IMO there's indeed a difference to those who "only" program their music (maybe using a keyboard).
The "honor" you're talking about is the fascination for the performance of people who devoted a large amount of lifetime to mastering a musical instrument and their ability to express themselves intuitive through it.

What are this "difference" you are talking about?

Now I can understand that it fascinates people, that someone can play an instrument... I myself are very fascinated by it surely... just seing Mad Fiddler playin' the fiddle fascinates me... sometimes I just feel that this fascination get too much attention, and the composing skills are "sunk back"... "as long as it's LIVE it's good!" is the feelin' I get from time to time... I've heard live compositions that to me is not very good composition wise, but still get high rates... and that puzzles me.

Now sometimes I just think that people forget how much skill and work is involved in making programed music as well... and when people start complaining about the timing being too "correct" I'm off... it just sounded like you have to do sloppy live music to be worthy of any "honor".

Personaly I don't really care that much if music is made one way or the other... I see the ability to play live in my own case as a gift I worked hard to reach, that allow me to be more expressive when I compose, and also allow me to come up with idears that is hard to get by programing... but that's it... programing on the other hand give me options to make material that is virtual impossible in live circumstances... especially in hardcore techno music, as noone can play arpeggios that damn fast!

give "programers only" a little more credit... they are artist too, just different ones ...

P.S. Have to add, that my post was more a reaction to those comments Nada wrote he got from listeners, than your post Romeo ... I just felt irritated on behalf of Nada, and then of cours that it sounded like programing music was considdered "lesser fascinating"... I'm as fascinated of well programed music as well as live music. Give me both, and I'm amazed!

[Romeo Knight]

Nothing is wrong with playing keyboards but IMO there's indeed a difference to those who "only" program their music (maybe using a keyboard).
The "honor" you're talking about is the fascination for the performance of people who devoted a large amount of lifetime to mastering a musical instrument and their ability to express themselves intuitive through it.

What are this "difference" you are talking about?

It's all in the sentence above.

Now I can understand that it fascinates people, that someone can play an instrument... I myself are very fascinated by it surely... just seing Mad Fiddler playin' the fiddle fascinates me... sometimes I just feel that this fascination get too much attention, and the composing skills are "sunk back

As I stated before that's all to the listener's opinion. Everybody has different aspects of music that appeal to him most. Peter likes guitar solos, Paul hates them. There's no too much loving or hating. That's trivial.

Now sometimes I just think that people forget how much skill and work is involved in making programed music as well... and when people start complaining about the timing being too "correct" I'm off... it just sounded like you have to do sloppy live music to be worthy of any "honor".

They don't mean sloppy timing, they mean human timing actually.
There's still a "good" and a "bad" timing in live played music which both are not identical to machine quantized timing.

give "programers only" a little more credit... they are artist too, just different ones ...

No.

[Razmo]

Romeo Knight: ... oh well, the good old Guitar guy vs. Electronica guy debate... guess we'll never agree ... but as you say; it's up to the individual to decide what they see as the better form of art...

I just felt bad because it sounded like quantization should be bad... now I don't quantize my recordings because I cannot keep up the timing, but because I look for the feel of tight timing (but I usualy keep velocity data unaltered)... now I know that I'm into electronica, and that guitar/bass is a totaly different case, and that people want that natural feel from such music... maybe the topic is really pointless, since it seems like it's two totaly different situations because of the style of the music.

[Waz]

I am really pissed off.

Don't let one person's comments upset you, Nada. I had a good listen to it and it wouldn't matter to me if you had played them or sequenced them. The fact is that you got the feel of the style of the tune you made across well to the listener, and it's an original way to take on Ghosts and Goblins.

Of course the fact that you did play those guitars live is an impressive feat, and I for one do consider this to be your best work. Hence the review being favourable. And as people on here know, I tend to say what I think, so take that as a compliment.

Don't be disheartened, instead look at the positives you have received about this mix. 5 red and 9 orange at the time of writing, which is good :)

[Infamous]

Way i see it nada.. aslong as your happy with the tune fuck what anyone else thinks of it.. In the end your not being paid to make it, their not paying to listen to it its all privelage passes handed out by the people who run rko. If you wasnt making the tunes and people stopped listening its a surefire bet that rko wouldnt exist for very long and become some kind of archaic archive for the nostalgia hunters to drool over and little more.

Take the constructives onboard if you want too, laugh at the lower marks (that rarely have a comment added for some reason) and just get on with doing what you enjoy. A vast majority of the community enjoys what you do so one or two less than constructive views really shoulnt effect you too much.

On the live vs electronic thing, all down to taste. I like both personally.

[Razmo]

Infamous: Yep!... your right!

Someone will always dislike what you do, others will think it's mediocre, and some will find it good or even amazing... it's kind of logic actually, since people have different taste, and I thank the gods for that, otherwise there would only be room in here for one remixer... the one that everybody would like...

As I said before, forget the few bad ones, and measure your response from the average... and if the average is bad, it's not the listeners fault, then it's your work that just did not cut it this time...

[xo]

Relax Nada. You're welcomed here and even if some are ignorant (who aren't from time to time), don't let that drag you down.

Also, as the others write, make space for difference of oppinion. After all, you're posting for all to hear, people are different. Stay firm in your efforts and aspirations.