The UnEarthly Silence of the Scene!

hyperhack · Post by **hyperhack** » 03/11/2004 - 3:11

I dont know whats happened here? Wether you dudes are all too busy or can't be arsed?

The scene has gone incredibly quiet regarding the future of BITLIVE!!!!

So many questions remain unanswered such as whos taking the reigns this time and whats been organised if anything?

I still say that (jokes aside) a charity money making event might still be a good idea! Try and get some top artists to play up on stage to Jam with PPOT, Stuck in D'80's, and Visa Roster and the rest of the gang?

If Geldof could do it with live aid/band aid, i'm sure the whole scene could pull it off! A hell of a lot of PR is needed I think. Outside support is needed! Sure some may think this is a bit extreme, but think about it, it would actually give this scene the worldwide awareness it deserves!

An album could be made at the generousity of a record company and the profits go to charity as well as ticket sales. If it had some recognised names on it like scooter and mr jarre it would sell in bucketloads!

I think if that was the case more and more people would support it for nicks and the event would pay for itself!

It would be nice to be at somewhere like wembley stadium rather than a church.

Okay i'm probably dreaming here, but seeing everyones digital music hero mr jarre on stage with the C64 remixers would be a dream come true lets face it!

(I mean no disrespect to Chris Abbott of course who has sufferred financially over this, but surely something along the lines of this could be done?)

Cheetor · Post by **Cheetor** » 03/11/2004 - 9:15

I've tried my fundraising thing to help get some cash for Chris to cover his losses (see my other posts on here) and had no response yet, not even emails asking about it - so I think the interest in another one is either drifting for a bit or it's going behind the scenes for now.

CraigG · Post by **CraigG** » 03/11/2004 - 10:04

The thing is, the scene, such that it is, is actually quite small, as is its reach. Although SID can get out there via stealth methods (read: sampling), anything more is really pushing it.

Bearing in mind how much money Chris lost on what were actually fairly modest events in the grand scheme of things, I think it's totally unlikely that you'd ever manage to get anywhere near filling even a medium-sized venue (such as one of the larger London gig venues), let alone a stadium!

If Geldof could do it with live aid/band aid, i'm sure the whole scene could pull it off!

Geldof did it with Live Aid, but then even he had a load of trouble getting many acts to perform (see the music museum in Dublin for some hilarious notes he made at the time about certain bands). The difference is that the music played was familiar, which is, unfortunately, what most people want. Even with a load of PR, you'd be hard-pressed to get a fraction of that support by playing C64 remixes.

An album could be made at the generousity of a record company

"Generous" and "record company" are never usually seen together in the same sentence...

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 03/11/2004 - 11:16

It's true. I made it clear at the time that Copenhagen would happen simply if other people made it happen. I think PPOT are still on the case, but other people jumping in have been thin on the ground. And there's always Retrovision, Retro Expo, Retrovania, Retrostock, Retro(er... that's enough retro - Ed). Live performance will just happen where it happens, I guess.

Chris

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 03/11/2004 - 11:18

I mean, to the world (who hasn't heard the originals), C64 originated music just sounds pretty much like any other music they don't know and don't care about. Not many vocals either, and not dance, which immediately limits its appeal to miniscule levels commercially. Sampling is all we've got... and new pop songs based on old melodies.

Chris

Cheetor · Post by **Cheetor** » 03/11/2004 - 11:22

For it to work it needs a core team of people who are going to be committed (or who would probably need to be committed afterwards!!). I'm definitely in as I've said in the other threads so if someone more closely involved at the heart of it gets in touch and gives me a list of things they need doing then I'll get on to it.

Okay, I've got no musical skills, but I'm pretty good from the PR and event organising side of things (been doing that for 15 years), and been working as a freelance writer for 10 years so I should have *something* to contribute somewhere!!

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 03/11/2004 - 11:30

Problem is, the best PR job PR people do is on themselves*. They've managed to convince everybody that PR is some magic wand that brings success. Well, it isn't. It's just spraying information out there, spending money, and hoping someone takes notice. But if the journalists aren't interested, then it dies.

I could have quite easily spent Ã‚Â£100,000 on PR and advertising and got nowhere.

Chris

* Present company excepted, of course

merman · Post by **merman** » 03/11/2004 - 11:32

I hope Kenz won't mind me spilling the beans here...

He's finished work on the SPECIAL GIFT for sponsors of this year's event. I got mine today

Hopefully my article in RETRO GAMER will generate some interest, and the Retrovision live event looks like it will be cooler than a polar bear's behind...

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » 04/11/2004 - 1:09

Same response to cartoon avatars as cheetor got to his fubd raising efforts - its like nobody can be arsed.

But yeah, Retrovision should be a blast.

hyperhack · Post by **hyperhack** » 04/11/2004 - 2:48

I see where you people are coming from (especially Chris).

I'm not saying go out and splash money around to try and antagonise people to get involved or come to events. I was merely highlighting that a probable solution to seeing the scene survive was to try and force it into the commerical market that was all.

Lets face it, the scene is going to struggle to survive on its own. It would have been better if it could have supported itself on its own but its 1000 people fan base wont cut it as i'm sure Chris has painfully found out.

Yeah I agree with the PR problem thats not completely the answer! what the scene needs is some commercialism! A C64 like dance/trance track in the UK/Euro charts to promote the awareness!

Okay lets face it, if you go to your high street HMV and pick up a ministry of sound blahdey blah mixes or whatever you pay like Ã‚Â£18 and lets face it although some of it is entertaining it is shite isnt it?

Now if musicians and some commercial dj's callaborated and did some ministry style remixed C64 stuff (similiar along the lines of scooter's level one) then i'm sure everyone would be into it! Come on think about it for a second!

Okay i'm gonna be bold here now and say that some of the C64 remixes i've heard are entertaining but not strong enough for worldwide recognition! The reason: well, the sid vibes like tracks are good but primitive compared to what you get now with the dance/trance genre. It doesnt matter how nostalgic u get the majority of listeners wont like it unless they are diehard fans of the C64.

Okay people you dont have to spent buckloads of cash to promote awareness! someone needs to pester these dj's, radio stations, media companies and keep on pestering them! Okay so a lot of them are not interested narrow minded uneducated people but surely if you dont give it a go you will never know the outcome!

I say more stuff like scooters level one applied to the classic music genre to promote awareness! Does anyone agree or disagree with that?

Who cares if its jazzed up 1000bpm doof doof kind of stuff, fact is the club scene dwarfs the c64 scene! Maybe its time the scene either evolved into something else. Either that or its got a bleak future

CraigG · Post by **CraigG** » 04/11/2004 - 9:23

Although initially more interested in "authenticity", I know that Chris is hardly blind to the ideas of licensing (which is basically what you're talking about). However, even when a C64 track does make it big (see: Zombie Nation), that doesn't do much for the scene. The vast majority of people didn't know that the track was originally from the C64, and I'm sure those that did didn't care. (In fact, I would guess if it was widespread knowledge that this was "computer game music", the track may have fared less well.)

The issue with C64 stuff is that although there are some great tunes there, a lot of it is down to nostalgia. Without that, many C64 tracks have nothing to offer over any other music out there. There are exceptions, but they are rare (Comic Bakery, for instance).

However, I do agree with one of your points, although I don't think "commercial" is the right word, but perhaps "more mainstream". Rather than remixers concerning themselves with note-for-note remakes, it'd be nice to see more Traumas and Makkes, creating pop/rock/dance tracks that are somehow related to the originals, but not necessarily remakes of them.

Maybe Lagerfeldt should be directed to this topic to give his 2p. As I remember it, he was thinking of doing a C64 CD, and some of his work has bordered on the sort of stuff you're talking about.

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 04/11/2004 - 10:00

From a basic commercial level, we basically have a scene with only one or two "acts". The pop industry is built in acts building up a fanbase, led by a manager who does whatever it takes to get them there. That's how they make their money. The record label is interested in acts because it might sell more records.

What no one in that chain wants to see is more money than necessary goign to people who aren't them. And if they use someone else's songs, then that's what happens. They'd only use someone else's songs if there was a good reason (catchy melody being one, of course).

"The scene" is of no interest whatsoever to the music industry, because there's no money in it, music be damned. And Craig is right, there's STILL a stigma attached to computer music. Zombie Nation guy managed to get through an entire interview with Sound on Sound without mentioning the C64 once. Mikron 64's website didn't mention it. And when that Australian used Knucklebusters and got it on ABC radio, he claimed authorship!

Mind you, we got back a large percentage of that and Rob got some radio play money. Which was nice.

Anyway: bottom line is, we aren't interesting to the music industry except as a source of raw material. There's no money in us, and no professonal acts to develop as a source of revenue.

That's not to say I've given up trying to sneak some tracks out into the wide world to get other artists to perform, but that won't improve the C64 remix scene.

Let's face it guys, this is it. Let's just enjoy the community before we all get married and middle aged!

Chris

hyperhack · Post by **hyperhack** » 04/11/2004 - 14:52

I can see that you have had enough Chris and wish to cut and run. I'm sure no one blames you for that!

I had no idea that other tracks such as the ones you mentioned had been used in that way and not credited to the scene! Thats just bloody unfair really isnt it?

I see your point about the music industry being interested in acts (with shite like reality shows and manufactured bands) but lets face it they are mostly one hit wonders and usually fizzle out. Sure the managers always make millions (which is also unfair).

Is there not a way to combine the meanstream approach and aspect of acts. I mean they take old tracks which were instrumentals. Like robert miles's Children and just whacked lyrics on it and hey presto instant selling power!

Surely if this could be applied to a C64 track then this success could be mimic'd in some way?

TSW's marble pack of stormlord was a great example! Jazz that up a bit in the dance theme sense and whack on the vocals and theres your dance track! People will hear it and think whats this? its bloody good, you can dance to it and then say I remember now! its a Remix C64 track! fucking hey!

Im not saying you dont know how to do your PR or promote events, I wouldnt dare try and take anything away from you Chris or your many minions. everyone appreciates your genius in getting this stuff onto the stage in the first place and will continue to acknowledge that no matter what.

It's just that I dont want to see this die and come to an end. I'm sure I will still be saying that when I am of pensionable age! (yes a while off I am glad to say!)

I think you guys know where I am coming from? Maybe its as was said earlier, maybe if acts like largerfeld and makke could get something into the eurochart or UK chart or even just played at some gigs and dance events then maybe this will help benefit the scene.

Maybe even see 'all' the artists combine and deliver some ground breaking tracks? I'm not a musician so I can't help in this way. I would if I could!

I cant believe that the music industry would just turn away from this. I definitely think it has money making potential in any sense.

Cheetor · Post by **Cheetor** » 04/11/2004 - 15:18

It's basically a commercial thing. It's easy enough to get a CD pressed and release something with C64 mixes or inspired tracks on, but getting it into the stores in another thing altogether. Without the muscle or backing of a major record label, it's nigh on impossible.

If something doesn't get radio airplay, it's hard to break into stores unless they are offered some form of incentive or you are an established record company and even then, smaller companies are better suited to dealing with independent stores or can't provide products in the quantity or at the reduced prices that the big chains like HMV or Virgin demand.

Even if a label could push something into stores, it's whether it would sell and that would be down to us going into them and making sure that we ALL bought a copy just to *try* to help make it commercially viable if it was 100% scene originated.

So far, there have only been a few CDs that have originated from the scene that have made it into record stores over here - Chris Huelsbeck's "In The Mix" and a few of Bjorn Lynne's CDs (I think Dreamstate via Centaur Records and a couple of others) but I know Bjorn was screwed over with the Centaur deal and the others have been very hard to get in without special orders so it's an uphill struggle no matter what.

Chris Abbott · Post by **Chris Abbott** » 04/11/2004 - 15:34

I'll just say here: we haven't given up hope that the right track can come along, and hit the right ear at the right time. But if that hit did happen, the glory wouldn't go to the remix scene. It's a lifestyle that only makes sense if you remember the original tunes, and therefore very difficult to buy into for outsiders. Output64 was an attempt to produce something exactly like this. It was released by Zomba records. It was a complete flop. Console's album sold 162 copies in the UK. It was distributed by Virgin.

And another thing, every year someone comes to me and says "hey, I can turn C64 music into the next big thing". So I waste time and money going to meet them, and we make big plans. Then nothing happens. It's getting tiring to meet people who are all mouth and no trousers. Ironstone were like that, and there was a guy at Brighton BIT Live who promised all sorts of things. Did he deliver? What do you think?

Chris

The UnEarthly Silence of the Scene!

The UnEarthly Silence of the Scene!

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