Hi there, thanks much for your kind response.
> One thing is certain the Spirit has been carried over to volume 2
> as it was with volume 1, maybe even more so.
I agree in every single point, and if you kept the spirit it is exactly what I wanted to say: I feel the spirit is alive at R64, the spirit I once liked about BiT1 that has gone.
In my opinion, yes, I know, Chris.
Sidologie clips released.
-
Chris Abbott
- Forum God
- Posts: 5307
- Joined: 22/11/2002 - 12:21
- Location: Dubai. No, not really.
- Contact:
Jens, about opinions: yours seems to be that if you don't like a CD, it shouldn't exist (this whole thread has turned into an argument that those CDs, especially Karma and Dreamscapes, never should have been released). Just how tolerant is that?
(Sidologie)
> You are the producer, aren't you?
No, I'm the record label. Marcel is the producer. It's his CD. It's his art.
(Input64)
We didn't like the project, but then it wasn't our project. In the end
the composers decided that they'd let it happen, assuming that
the people behind the project knew their target market: which wasn't this
audience. They asked for permission for something they were determined
to do. It would have been stupid to stop them. Why turn down free money? Output64 sucked big-time. But a big record label wanted to do it,
and needed our permission. Isn't this part of that whole "wider audience"
thing I've been talking about?
(Wider audience)
RKO, for instance, has tracks that should
be on record or CD. But they aren't. Why? Because you've got to put the stuff out there: you can't just release it and hope it gets picked up, because it never does! You've got to ring people, you've got to lobby, you've got to persuade. In short, it's who you know. It's getting the lucky break. Why isn't DHS in LA? Because that break hasn't happened yet.
You seem to be under the misconception that I think I've done everything
right to launch and promote the albums. On the contrary, the CDs
themselves are the only thing I'm happy with. We have CDs which
WILL (and it's not a matter of opinion) appeal to certain wider audiences,
but they haven't reached those audiences. Why? Because I haven't done
enough to promote them, and because C64Audio.com website isn't a good
enough tool to promote them. C64Audio.com is being rewritten, but
I still don't have enough time or energy to promote them, because
this isn't the only thing I do with my life. There's a whole New Age site
being set up to sell Dreamscapes, because it simply is a credible New Age
CD: I will brook no argument on that: I have done my research. However, months after the release, the website is not set up. I haven't
even announced the CD to my mailing list (hence the lack of reviews, though Merman has done one, haven't you?), because
I wanted to wait until the site was relaunched.
Why can't I do these things?
Simple: two new children I look after daily, the struggle of trying to pay a mortgage, and the struggle of my friends Boz and Kenz against the same demons: it's been a bad couple of years in the IT industry too, and my responsibilities have increased as well.
BUT
The argument that we've had since 1998 is nonsense: it's only with the
release of the three CDs last year that we had a credible portfolio for the
outside world by covering a load more genres. Plus there's been a lot of infrastructure to put in place, such as membership of STIM/MCPS/PPL, registering of tracks, clarifying copyrights, etc. It has taken YEARS.
In the last six months, however, things have been happening with
regards to licencing tracks to proper record labels, and more enquiries
have happened. We've been finally getting review copies to people, and
as I said, the website and shop are coming online in the next month.
We've been covered in many magazines, on the radio, and more magazines are interested in writing about it, such as GamesTM, especially
considering BIT Live Germany. We're also finally making an effort to get
the dance tracks and synth tracks to labels like Synth Music Direct,
and to get tracks included on other compilations, and in pushing the
actual C64 tunes to get other people to cover them as well.
Basically, all of this activity has only really started this year, and it will be some time before it pays off. But to assume that the wider success hasn't happened is because the CDs lack quality is just plain wrong. The wider
success hasn't happened yet because I have been (and still am) not
able to devote enough time to it, and because the website sucks. That's
my fault. I admit it. But it's no reflection on the quality of the CDs.
I'm sitting on a hell of a lot of reviews which again I've been remiss
in not putting up earlier. That,
again, is my fault. However, progress is slowly being made, BIT Live
4 is gearing up, and things are looking more promising than they ever
have for wider commercial success. It's just not something I like to talk
about until something happens, otherwise it's just empty boasting, isn't it?
There is something there.
(Jarre and Vangelis)
The argument seems to be that you don't need Jarre soundalikes when
you have Jarre. This would indeed be true if Jarre was producing stuff
which sounded like the Jarre we know and love. But he isn't. And there's
a space for stuff which reminisces back to the glorious past, while
bringing a new approach. Find out what the people want but can't get,
and then give it to them. Isn't that what it's about?
(BIT 3 Story)
It had never been done before in a C64 remix album.
Everything we've done so far has been done before by someone else.
The same is true of 99% of music today. So what? It was new in context,
and that was what counted. I'm not deluded enough to think that anything
I've done is original. It's all derivative. So is virtually everything else
in the world. It's context which makes the difference.
Even now I've spent far too long on this thread, wasting time which I could have used in more urgent ways.
Believe what you want. Sidologie is great, I'm not changing track: indeed there's no other track to change to. I'm sorry I've alienated you. But, c'est la vie.
Chris
(Sidologie)
> You are the producer, aren't you?
No, I'm the record label. Marcel is the producer. It's his CD. It's his art.
(Input64)
We didn't like the project, but then it wasn't our project. In the end
the composers decided that they'd let it happen, assuming that
the people behind the project knew their target market: which wasn't this
audience. They asked for permission for something they were determined
to do. It would have been stupid to stop them. Why turn down free money? Output64 sucked big-time. But a big record label wanted to do it,
and needed our permission. Isn't this part of that whole "wider audience"
thing I've been talking about?
(Wider audience)
RKO, for instance, has tracks that should
be on record or CD. But they aren't. Why? Because you've got to put the stuff out there: you can't just release it and hope it gets picked up, because it never does! You've got to ring people, you've got to lobby, you've got to persuade. In short, it's who you know. It's getting the lucky break. Why isn't DHS in LA? Because that break hasn't happened yet.
You seem to be under the misconception that I think I've done everything
right to launch and promote the albums. On the contrary, the CDs
themselves are the only thing I'm happy with. We have CDs which
WILL (and it's not a matter of opinion) appeal to certain wider audiences,
but they haven't reached those audiences. Why? Because I haven't done
enough to promote them, and because C64Audio.com website isn't a good
enough tool to promote them. C64Audio.com is being rewritten, but
I still don't have enough time or energy to promote them, because
this isn't the only thing I do with my life. There's a whole New Age site
being set up to sell Dreamscapes, because it simply is a credible New Age
CD: I will brook no argument on that: I have done my research. However, months after the release, the website is not set up. I haven't
even announced the CD to my mailing list (hence the lack of reviews, though Merman has done one, haven't you?), because
I wanted to wait until the site was relaunched.
Why can't I do these things?
Simple: two new children I look after daily, the struggle of trying to pay a mortgage, and the struggle of my friends Boz and Kenz against the same demons: it's been a bad couple of years in the IT industry too, and my responsibilities have increased as well.
BUT
The argument that we've had since 1998 is nonsense: it's only with the
release of the three CDs last year that we had a credible portfolio for the
outside world by covering a load more genres. Plus there's been a lot of infrastructure to put in place, such as membership of STIM/MCPS/PPL, registering of tracks, clarifying copyrights, etc. It has taken YEARS.
In the last six months, however, things have been happening with
regards to licencing tracks to proper record labels, and more enquiries
have happened. We've been finally getting review copies to people, and
as I said, the website and shop are coming online in the next month.
We've been covered in many magazines, on the radio, and more magazines are interested in writing about it, such as GamesTM, especially
considering BIT Live Germany. We're also finally making an effort to get
the dance tracks and synth tracks to labels like Synth Music Direct,
and to get tracks included on other compilations, and in pushing the
actual C64 tunes to get other people to cover them as well.
Basically, all of this activity has only really started this year, and it will be some time before it pays off. But to assume that the wider success hasn't happened is because the CDs lack quality is just plain wrong. The wider
success hasn't happened yet because I have been (and still am) not
able to devote enough time to it, and because the website sucks. That's
my fault. I admit it. But it's no reflection on the quality of the CDs.
I'm sitting on a hell of a lot of reviews which again I've been remiss
in not putting up earlier. That,
again, is my fault. However, progress is slowly being made, BIT Live
4 is gearing up, and things are looking more promising than they ever
have for wider commercial success. It's just not something I like to talk
about until something happens, otherwise it's just empty boasting, isn't it?
There is something there.
(Jarre and Vangelis)
The argument seems to be that you don't need Jarre soundalikes when
you have Jarre. This would indeed be true if Jarre was producing stuff
which sounded like the Jarre we know and love. But he isn't. And there's
a space for stuff which reminisces back to the glorious past, while
bringing a new approach. Find out what the people want but can't get,
and then give it to them. Isn't that what it's about?
(BIT 3 Story)
It had never been done before in a C64 remix album.
Everything we've done so far has been done before by someone else.
The same is true of 99% of music today. So what? It was new in context,
and that was what counted. I'm not deluded enough to think that anything
I've done is original. It's all derivative. So is virtually everything else
in the world. It's context which makes the difference.
Even now I've spent far too long on this thread, wasting time which I could have used in more urgent ways.
Believe what you want. Sidologie is great, I'm not changing track: indeed there's no other track to change to. I'm sorry I've alienated you. But, c'est la vie.
Chris
Oh, i'm a nearly unknown kid who tries to make some noise with his equipment.Jens wrote:> My dance remixes are always innovative! (well, nearly).
Out of curiosity, you are the man behind that Apidya remix, right?
And, yes, the most innovative thing in my Apidya remix is the crackle at 00:09 on the right channel.
Cheers.
Hi Chris,
> Even now I've spent far too long on this thread, wasting time
> which I could have used in more urgent ways.
> Believe what you want. Sidologie is great, I'm not changing track:
> indeed there's no other track to change to. I'm sorry I've alienated
> you. But, c'est la vie.
Because of the point I (also) see no further reason to discuss, I want to end this interesting discussion with you now. For me, your last statement perfectly reflects what I thought about you and C64audio.com. Thanks much for pointing it out again, and may you have success with getting a wider audience, not for you, just for the composers who still have the spirit.
Thanks
Jens
> Even now I've spent far too long on this thread, wasting time
> which I could have used in more urgent ways.
> Believe what you want. Sidologie is great, I'm not changing track:
> indeed there's no other track to change to. I'm sorry I've alienated
> you. But, c'est la vie.
Because of the point I (also) see no further reason to discuss, I want to end this interesting discussion with you now. For me, your last statement perfectly reflects what I thought about you and C64audio.com. Thanks much for pointing it out again, and may you have success with getting a wider audience, not for you, just for the composers who still have the spirit.
Thanks
Jens
> Oh, i'm a nearly unknown kid who tries to make some noise with
> his equipment.
Yes, unknown is right, noise... well, a matter of taste again. As a great admirer of Huelsbeck's work... but well, this is another issue.
> And, yes, the most innovative thing in my Apidya remix is the
> crackle at 00:09 on the right channel.
Thumbs up for that...
^Jens
> his equipment.
Yes, unknown is right, noise... well, a matter of taste again. As a great admirer of Huelsbeck's work... but well, this is another issue.
> And, yes, the most innovative thing in my Apidya remix is the
> crackle at 00:09 on the right channel.
Thumbs up for that...
^Jens
As someone who helped beta-test Crystal Dreamscapes, and as Chris pointed out the first reviewer of the COMPLETED work, let me add my thoughts here:
BIT1 was good, but in many ways could have been better. Chris won't mind me saying some of the instruments were over-used (the trumpet lead for example) and there could have been more variation in tempo/style. AS A WHOLE, the CD booklet with it's inside information and the tracks were an important first attempt.
BIT2 expanded on the approach - more people, more original composers involved. There is a greater depth to the arrangements, along with the "transforming" tracks that lead you from the original SID to the new arrangement. It is more professional in presentation.
BIT3 is a concept album, that concept being a journey through space. The story and the high-quality booklet ADD to the experience.
KARMA64 has always been described as an experiment in trance/ambient covers. Neil will back me up on this, but I don't feel it was 100% succsesful. They are great tracks, but would not stand up to inclusion on a themed compilation from a "major" label.
CRYSTAL DREAMSCAPES is very different from any of the above - this is not a remix CD, which is the point Chris keeps stressing. In it's beta form, there was a lot more in terms of direct covers and inspiration. The first time I heard it I had just come back from a shopping trip (guaranteed to stress me out!) and it calmed me down.
So, I sent Chris an e-mail with my thoughts and some of the images it conjured up. I received a finished copy in the post, and was amazed - a LOT of work has gone into it since the beta stage, based on the beta-tester's comments. Track order has changed, new pieces added and everything has been improved subtly. The artwork is amazing too.
Jens, you seem to be under the impression Chris can just snap his fingers and create a huge market that does not exist. I wonder, as a comparison, how many copies the Final Fantasy VII soundtrack CD sold? A CD backed by a major corporation with distribution deals, a dedicated marketing department and so on.
As remix (and Remix64) fans we will all make our own decisions about what to buy - I know I will pre-order SIDOLOGIE, as a Jarre fan and a C64 remix fan. The artwork is not an issue for me - it ties the identity to the material it was inspired by. From a quick listen to the online clips, it sounds really good.
Chris, I hope you, Tanya and the kids are well. I'm sure I speak for a lot of people when I say we appreciate how much time & effort you put into C64audio, and making available the work of some talented people who themselves put in so much effort.
Positive vibes
Merman
BIT1 was good, but in many ways could have been better. Chris won't mind me saying some of the instruments were over-used (the trumpet lead for example) and there could have been more variation in tempo/style. AS A WHOLE, the CD booklet with it's inside information and the tracks were an important first attempt.
BIT2 expanded on the approach - more people, more original composers involved. There is a greater depth to the arrangements, along with the "transforming" tracks that lead you from the original SID to the new arrangement. It is more professional in presentation.
BIT3 is a concept album, that concept being a journey through space. The story and the high-quality booklet ADD to the experience.
KARMA64 has always been described as an experiment in trance/ambient covers. Neil will back me up on this, but I don't feel it was 100% succsesful. They are great tracks, but would not stand up to inclusion on a themed compilation from a "major" label.
CRYSTAL DREAMSCAPES is very different from any of the above - this is not a remix CD, which is the point Chris keeps stressing. In it's beta form, there was a lot more in terms of direct covers and inspiration. The first time I heard it I had just come back from a shopping trip (guaranteed to stress me out!) and it calmed me down.
So, I sent Chris an e-mail with my thoughts and some of the images it conjured up. I received a finished copy in the post, and was amazed - a LOT of work has gone into it since the beta stage, based on the beta-tester's comments. Track order has changed, new pieces added and everything has been improved subtly. The artwork is amazing too.
Jens, you seem to be under the impression Chris can just snap his fingers and create a huge market that does not exist. I wonder, as a comparison, how many copies the Final Fantasy VII soundtrack CD sold? A CD backed by a major corporation with distribution deals, a dedicated marketing department and so on.
As remix (and Remix64) fans we will all make our own decisions about what to buy - I know I will pre-order SIDOLOGIE, as a Jarre fan and a C64 remix fan. The artwork is not an issue for me - it ties the identity to the material it was inspired by. From a quick listen to the online clips, it sounds really good.
Chris, I hope you, Tanya and the kids are well. I'm sure I speak for a lot of people when I say we appreciate how much time & effort you put into C64audio, and making available the work of some talented people who themselves put in so much effort.
Positive vibes
Merman
--Anyone want to remix my SIDs?--
merman1974 on Twitter, Steam and Xbox Live
merman1974 on Twitter, Steam and Xbox Live
aye I agree with merman,
chris, neil. marcel and all the other composers put alot of work and effort into what they do, and constructive critisismn is always usefull, helps to push things forward, cos we all dont want to be told we are right all the time do we? ........unless we have a woman complex (runs and hides).
but apart from that sexist comment (sorry its bloody true....u say to any woman....i think you'll find your wrong....and its ww3 right there in the living room)AHEM, anyway serious...
yes, critisismn is fine, take my prediciment, ive got a few mixes on RKO and 1 on the amiga chanell all grey faces.
ya'll dont like them......but instead of bitching about it, i just listened to them again....and the 2 below and the 2 above just to see what THEY did, that i didnt, and then i will try to improve, to match or even go above what i and what they did.....im constantly trying new idea's trying new instruments, new programs to get THAT sound that i want.
and i can tell ya its a right bugger when the one below is peacemaker and the one above is dhs.......cos well buggery.....proffesionalismn?......weyhey!.
Either way, i NEED them grey faces....so that i really REALLY appreciate when i see the smiley faces and the red faces.
but when the critismn goes from being constructive like yours WAS jens to just nit picking and not really structured anymore or geared towards a viable argument ....infact to be honest it DID seem like all u was trying to do was piss chris off.
and you did a good job too, i dunno maybe it was just me, in my personal opinion : -
i think sidology sounds gr8,
ive not got any of the old BIT cd's but i plan to purchase some, because i love the scene love being part of it and ill do whatever i can to support it, as will i be purchasing neils cd.
simply because i love this place, im part of it.
if someone does something crap.....ill tell them, ill be honest and ill say nope......that was crap, effort was there, idea was there, but somewere along the line it turned into a white rabbit, being harsh is fine as i keep saying but in moderation.....u can only kick someone so many times before it turns from constructive to destructive....and here lies the problem in this thread.
u think that there isnt a scene and its dying no market etc
chris doesnt as id imagine that 99% of all the composers here dont
its your opinion your entitled to it as are we......
as i said personally.....i dont think it is and the new spat of commercial (in a sense) cd's will go along way to prove that as will the constant improvement and work put into sites like amiga remix and RKO.
long may it live.
chris, neil. marcel and all the other composers put alot of work and effort into what they do, and constructive critisismn is always usefull, helps to push things forward, cos we all dont want to be told we are right all the time do we? ........unless we have a woman complex (runs and hides).
but apart from that sexist comment (sorry its bloody true....u say to any woman....i think you'll find your wrong....and its ww3 right there in the living room)AHEM, anyway serious...
yes, critisismn is fine, take my prediciment, ive got a few mixes on RKO and 1 on the amiga chanell all grey faces.
ya'll dont like them......but instead of bitching about it, i just listened to them again....and the 2 below and the 2 above just to see what THEY did, that i didnt, and then i will try to improve, to match or even go above what i and what they did.....im constantly trying new idea's trying new instruments, new programs to get THAT sound that i want.
and i can tell ya its a right bugger when the one below is peacemaker and the one above is dhs.......cos well buggery.....proffesionalismn?......weyhey!.
Either way, i NEED them grey faces....so that i really REALLY appreciate when i see the smiley faces and the red faces.
but when the critismn goes from being constructive like yours WAS jens to just nit picking and not really structured anymore or geared towards a viable argument ....infact to be honest it DID seem like all u was trying to do was piss chris off.
and you did a good job too, i dunno maybe it was just me, in my personal opinion : -
i think sidology sounds gr8,
ive not got any of the old BIT cd's but i plan to purchase some, because i love the scene love being part of it and ill do whatever i can to support it, as will i be purchasing neils cd.
simply because i love this place, im part of it.
if someone does something crap.....ill tell them, ill be honest and ill say nope......that was crap, effort was there, idea was there, but somewere along the line it turned into a white rabbit, being harsh is fine as i keep saying but in moderation.....u can only kick someone so many times before it turns from constructive to destructive....and here lies the problem in this thread.
u think that there isnt a scene and its dying no market etc
chris doesnt as id imagine that 99% of all the composers here dont
its your opinion your entitled to it as are we......
as i said personally.....i dont think it is and the new spat of commercial (in a sense) cd's will go along way to prove that as will the constant improvement and work put into sites like amiga remix and RKO.
long may it live.
oh yeah and that click on 0:09 is innovative......but the rest of the tune is a sparkling diamond that if u held up to the sun and stared into it centre
would make your eyes bleed and pop with excitement.
its a lil longer than 9seconds long.
and bloody good and thumbs up goes to the pop for giving character (as i said in another thread) and a big ol star jump and much singing from angels etc for the rest of the track
(sorry singing the praises of DHS again.....but he really is good ya know) lolol.....
would make your eyes bleed and pop with excitement.
its a lil longer than 9seconds long.
and bloody good and thumbs up goes to the pop for giving character (as i said in another thread) and a big ol star jump and much singing from angels etc for the rest of the track
(sorry singing the praises of DHS again.....but he really is good ya know) lolol.....
-
dan gillgrass
- Built from Stella and KFC
- Posts: 1399
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Isn't this getting a bit childish. I think Chris has made some very valuable points. Yes, I can download free stuff from RKO but Ill continue to support Chris in his work because a) I want to contribute to the scene which I think Chris does more than anyone and b) I thought that BIT3 was an awesome piece of work and am def looking forward to BIT4 and the future live events that may or may not happen.
Well, if you're so good, try to accomplish what i did!tom wrote:even me ......Makke wrote:Pfft, crappy dance music shite! Anyone can do that! Even Max!
Try to make a crackle on the right channel at exactly 00:09!
Btw, that "incubation" bank really rocks!
And, no, makky boy and me aren't going to marry
Cheers.
aaaaaaaaaah makke.........men............there all the bloody same
1st they tell u they love u.....then they say they wanna marry
then they do the business and sod off.....
gaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
lol.
and YEAH! lets see u lot do a descrepency at exactly 0:09 seconds that takes ITALIAN CLASS that does
lolollllllllllllllllll
1st they tell u they love u.....then they say they wanna marry
then they do the business and sod off.....
gaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.
lol.
and YEAH! lets see u lot do a descrepency at exactly 0:09 seconds that takes ITALIAN CLASS that does
lolollllllllllllllllll