Getting started in the C64 remix scene
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David Youd
- Commodore Fan
- Posts: 10
- Joined: 20/09/2003 - 21:51
- Location: California, USA
- Contact:
One final note on this thread. Late last week, Sibelius announced version 3. Apparently, they too are trying to break into the "I want to make good sounding MP3s" market. To this end, they are now bundling-in the Kontakt player (their shockwave demo of their integration with Kontakt is here: http://www.sibelius.com/download/kontak ... ontakt.swf ).
I'm going to stick with my original plan, and get the upcoming SONAR 3 Producer.
I'm going to stick with my original plan, and get the upcoming SONAR 3 Producer.
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Chris Abbott
- Forum God
- Posts: 5307
- Joined: 22/11/2002 - 12:21
- Location: Dubai. No, not really.
- Contact:
> I'm going to stick with my original plan, and get the upcoming
> SONAR 3 Producer.
Don't expect it to be even vaguely stable until the second or third maintenance release. The bug list for Sonars 1.0 and 2.0 were so shocking I was surprised it even made it out of the door. For instance, the patch for Sonar 1.0 (1.0.2) listed the following bugs, some of which are so basic it's possible to believe they never tested the product, such as:
List of bugs in Sonar 1.0:
Applying Audio Effects with a partially selected clip would crop the clip to the selection.
Revalver produced a steady beep when patched to a track.
Step Record always used 960 PPQ when specifying ticks.
It was not possible to enter any number in the time box in any toolbar, when StudioWare view was displayed.
Could not hear input to Edirol VSC DXi synth when in Overwrite record mode.
Could not record audio data immediately after changing the Options-Audio-Driver Profiles-Access Driver In Mono option.
MIDI pan envelopes were displayed backwards (left on bottom)
Session Drummer did not play back when patched to Edirol VSC DXi synth.
Various issues with manually overwriting existing track automation.
When using DXi soft-synths, audio meter was responding early to MIDI message.
Loop punch record of MIDI didn't mute previous takes.
Input monitoring was turned off as soon as you would punch-in in Overwrite mode.
Extraneous clips and slip-edits were created when moving notes in the Piano Roll view or Staff view.
Moving loop points during playback caused MIDI notes to be skipped and/or hang after looping.
Bank and Patch changes of the 2nd (and after) track(s) were not reloaded as track properties once exported to Standard MIDI file.
If playing through a DXi synth while looping, the DXi output would stop when looping was turned off.
Later-inserted DXi's port numbers were "lost" from MIDI tracks if earlier-inserted DXi's were deleted from audio track strip's FX bins.
No data was recorded in Overwrite mode if the track was soloed.
Markers saved in a Pro Audio 9 file would relocate when opened in SONAR.
When "Share Drivers With Other Programs" was selected in Options-Audio-Advanced, switching to another application while a bounce was in progress would cause the bounce to prematurely finish.
Edit-Bounce to Track(s) would fail with a DirectShow error on attempting to bounce with source buses deselected.
Extra envelope shapes were created when a node was dragged across a tempo change.
Edit-Audio-Remove Silence would move the edge of the selected slip-edited audio clip(s).
Track envelope gain would have no effect after the 24 minute mark.
Clip envelopes did not render beyond the 24 minute mark.
Selection difficulties when dragging an audio clip across a tempo change.
Clip Velocity envelope tooltip values ranged from 0.0 to 100.0 instead of -127 to +127.
Problems with drag & drop of audio clips when tempo changes were present.
Data pasted to a project with a different tempo would end up in the wrong place.
Typo in Audio Options dialog ("Number of Aux Buses" was "Number of Aux Busses")
The Event List view did not open at the current Now time.
Split settings persisted when using "S" hotkey.
Entire track would get selected after performing an offline edit on a partially selected clip.
DXi port order was not designated/kept properly in saved projects.
Insert-Time/Measures did not work correctly.
Certain MFX MIDI plug-ins prevented pass-thru of MIDI input to DXi synths.
Aux Sends did not function when track was set to certain virtual main outputs.
SONAR did not receive the 2nd Song Position Pointer (SPP).
During migration from a previous Cakewalk product, the AUD.INI file migrated several settings it should have ignored, potentially causing audio timing problems.
Clip names and colors were not migrated from pre-SONAR projects.
Problem Report with volume envelopes.
"Create track envelopes using linear shapes" option added to the Envelope Tool dropdown menu. When this option is enabled while inserting a new envelope, a linear shape will be inserted for the duration of the project instead of a dotted line.
SONAR 1.0.2 will automatically insert automation when the user attempts to drag any horizontal dotted line that appears before the last shape event. A linear shape will replace the horizontal portion of the dotted line.
Envelope nodes would jump to the wrong position when dragged across a tempo change.
The audio engine would not stay running when Input monitoring was enabled and the AudioX console was open.
The Split command would not take the SMPTE offset into account when using "Split At Time" and specifying the split time in H:S:M:F.
Aux Returns were included in Bounce to Track(s) even though they were deselected from the source bus list.
Aux returns would buzz when no audio was passed through them.
Disable "Paste into Existing Clips" in the Paste dialog when audio is being pasted.
SMPTE option "Always" did not work as intended.
"SMPTE/MTC timecode detected" dialog could not be cancelled.
After maximizing a track, tracks above were hidden.
"Interval" setting was not updating properly in the Paste dialog.
Edit-Bounce to Track(s) did not include track automation.
Applying Effects would result in a mono track when a stereo effect was used in a mono track.
Slip-edited MIDI Clips could not be moved correctly in the Piano Roll view.
Key + and Vel + had no effect on DreamStation DXi synth.
Changing the start time of a note in the Staff view caused its clip to be cropped.
Transposing multiple Groove-enabled clips with Alt-- and Alt-+ would cause an abnormal exit.
MIDI automated mute was ignored when recording.
SONAR did not always sync to SMPTE.
Track envelope node would disappear when dragged directly below another node.
Staff View would display notes with double note heads.
Edit-Audio-Remove Silence did not handle slip-edited audio clips properly or clips with clip level automation.
Saving multiple work files when closing SONAR could lead to false Error Message, unintentional loss of data.
Opening a file with DXi patched caused Bank/Patch changes to be sent on physical/external MIDI ports.
Slip-edited clips could not be selected with CTRL+F9 and CTRL+F10.
Dragging leading edge of a Groove clip caused the Snap Offset marker to move.
Edit-Apply Audio Effects would truncate effects tails.
Edit-Apply MIDI Effects did not always function correctly.
Mono audio clip would be inserted in a new stereo track, causing playback meters not to function.
A track created by a send submix was created with a volume set to +6db.
Time Signature Meta Events were imported to different time from original Standard MIDI file.
Remote control of Automation Record did not work.
"Create a Send Submix" would cause gain reduction.
Event List view did not show audio events that had a cropped (slip-edited) start time.
Console View had a different tooltip than the Track view for the Mono/Stereo button(s).
Attempting to decrease note duration by using a CAL script would change the note duration to an extremely large value.
CAL scripts would change note durations based on 960 PPQ.
Running Split Channel to Tracks.cal could cause CAL error and channel tracks were not created.
Running Split Note to Tracks.cal could cause an Out of range error.
Split Notes to Tracks.CAL could cause "Value out of range" error.
Missing some WM_KEYDOWN messages, addressed to plug-in window.
The Hyphenator TTSHYPH.dll was not being installed.
Edit-Remove Silence could affect non-selected region.
If you recorded an automation snapshot, then moved the widget and recorded a new snapshot, the automation value did not change and the widget moved back to the first value.
Roland UA-3 profiled incorrectly using WDM drivers.
In rare circumstances, clips could disappear when dragged.
Pre-SONAR files with anchor points would load audio events at wrong times and potentially cause an abnormal exit. Anchor points are now properly migrated to the new style snap offset markers.
Removed obsolete Transport-Automation Record Options dialog.
Patch control dropdown menu in SONAR 1.0.2 uses multiple columns.
> SONAR 3 Producer.
Don't expect it to be even vaguely stable until the second or third maintenance release. The bug list for Sonars 1.0 and 2.0 were so shocking I was surprised it even made it out of the door. For instance, the patch for Sonar 1.0 (1.0.2) listed the following bugs, some of which are so basic it's possible to believe they never tested the product, such as:
List of bugs in Sonar 1.0:
Applying Audio Effects with a partially selected clip would crop the clip to the selection.
Revalver produced a steady beep when patched to a track.
Step Record always used 960 PPQ when specifying ticks.
It was not possible to enter any number in the time box in any toolbar, when StudioWare view was displayed.
Could not hear input to Edirol VSC DXi synth when in Overwrite record mode.
Could not record audio data immediately after changing the Options-Audio-Driver Profiles-Access Driver In Mono option.
MIDI pan envelopes were displayed backwards (left on bottom)
Session Drummer did not play back when patched to Edirol VSC DXi synth.
Various issues with manually overwriting existing track automation.
When using DXi soft-synths, audio meter was responding early to MIDI message.
Loop punch record of MIDI didn't mute previous takes.
Input monitoring was turned off as soon as you would punch-in in Overwrite mode.
Extraneous clips and slip-edits were created when moving notes in the Piano Roll view or Staff view.
Moving loop points during playback caused MIDI notes to be skipped and/or hang after looping.
Bank and Patch changes of the 2nd (and after) track(s) were not reloaded as track properties once exported to Standard MIDI file.
If playing through a DXi synth while looping, the DXi output would stop when looping was turned off.
Later-inserted DXi's port numbers were "lost" from MIDI tracks if earlier-inserted DXi's were deleted from audio track strip's FX bins.
No data was recorded in Overwrite mode if the track was soloed.
Markers saved in a Pro Audio 9 file would relocate when opened in SONAR.
When "Share Drivers With Other Programs" was selected in Options-Audio-Advanced, switching to another application while a bounce was in progress would cause the bounce to prematurely finish.
Edit-Bounce to Track(s) would fail with a DirectShow error on attempting to bounce with source buses deselected.
Extra envelope shapes were created when a node was dragged across a tempo change.
Edit-Audio-Remove Silence would move the edge of the selected slip-edited audio clip(s).
Track envelope gain would have no effect after the 24 minute mark.
Clip envelopes did not render beyond the 24 minute mark.
Selection difficulties when dragging an audio clip across a tempo change.
Clip Velocity envelope tooltip values ranged from 0.0 to 100.0 instead of -127 to +127.
Problems with drag & drop of audio clips when tempo changes were present.
Data pasted to a project with a different tempo would end up in the wrong place.
Typo in Audio Options dialog ("Number of Aux Buses" was "Number of Aux Busses")
The Event List view did not open at the current Now time.
Split settings persisted when using "S" hotkey.
Entire track would get selected after performing an offline edit on a partially selected clip.
DXi port order was not designated/kept properly in saved projects.
Insert-Time/Measures did not work correctly.
Certain MFX MIDI plug-ins prevented pass-thru of MIDI input to DXi synths.
Aux Sends did not function when track was set to certain virtual main outputs.
SONAR did not receive the 2nd Song Position Pointer (SPP).
During migration from a previous Cakewalk product, the AUD.INI file migrated several settings it should have ignored, potentially causing audio timing problems.
Clip names and colors were not migrated from pre-SONAR projects.
Problem Report with volume envelopes.
"Create track envelopes using linear shapes" option added to the Envelope Tool dropdown menu. When this option is enabled while inserting a new envelope, a linear shape will be inserted for the duration of the project instead of a dotted line.
SONAR 1.0.2 will automatically insert automation when the user attempts to drag any horizontal dotted line that appears before the last shape event. A linear shape will replace the horizontal portion of the dotted line.
Envelope nodes would jump to the wrong position when dragged across a tempo change.
The audio engine would not stay running when Input monitoring was enabled and the AudioX console was open.
The Split command would not take the SMPTE offset into account when using "Split At Time" and specifying the split time in H:S:M:F.
Aux Returns were included in Bounce to Track(s) even though they were deselected from the source bus list.
Aux returns would buzz when no audio was passed through them.
Disable "Paste into Existing Clips" in the Paste dialog when audio is being pasted.
SMPTE option "Always" did not work as intended.
"SMPTE/MTC timecode detected" dialog could not be cancelled.
After maximizing a track, tracks above were hidden.
"Interval" setting was not updating properly in the Paste dialog.
Edit-Bounce to Track(s) did not include track automation.
Applying Effects would result in a mono track when a stereo effect was used in a mono track.
Slip-edited MIDI Clips could not be moved correctly in the Piano Roll view.
Key + and Vel + had no effect on DreamStation DXi synth.
Changing the start time of a note in the Staff view caused its clip to be cropped.
Transposing multiple Groove-enabled clips with Alt-- and Alt-+ would cause an abnormal exit.
MIDI automated mute was ignored when recording.
SONAR did not always sync to SMPTE.
Track envelope node would disappear when dragged directly below another node.
Staff View would display notes with double note heads.
Edit-Audio-Remove Silence did not handle slip-edited audio clips properly or clips with clip level automation.
Saving multiple work files when closing SONAR could lead to false Error Message, unintentional loss of data.
Opening a file with DXi patched caused Bank/Patch changes to be sent on physical/external MIDI ports.
Slip-edited clips could not be selected with CTRL+F9 and CTRL+F10.
Dragging leading edge of a Groove clip caused the Snap Offset marker to move.
Edit-Apply Audio Effects would truncate effects tails.
Edit-Apply MIDI Effects did not always function correctly.
Mono audio clip would be inserted in a new stereo track, causing playback meters not to function.
A track created by a send submix was created with a volume set to +6db.
Time Signature Meta Events were imported to different time from original Standard MIDI file.
Remote control of Automation Record did not work.
"Create a Send Submix" would cause gain reduction.
Event List view did not show audio events that had a cropped (slip-edited) start time.
Console View had a different tooltip than the Track view for the Mono/Stereo button(s).
Attempting to decrease note duration by using a CAL script would change the note duration to an extremely large value.
CAL scripts would change note durations based on 960 PPQ.
Running Split Channel to Tracks.cal could cause CAL error and channel tracks were not created.
Running Split Note to Tracks.cal could cause an Out of range error.
Split Notes to Tracks.CAL could cause "Value out of range" error.
Missing some WM_KEYDOWN messages, addressed to plug-in window.
The Hyphenator TTSHYPH.dll was not being installed.
Edit-Remove Silence could affect non-selected region.
If you recorded an automation snapshot, then moved the widget and recorded a new snapshot, the automation value did not change and the widget moved back to the first value.
Roland UA-3 profiled incorrectly using WDM drivers.
In rare circumstances, clips could disappear when dragged.
Pre-SONAR files with anchor points would load audio events at wrong times and potentially cause an abnormal exit. Anchor points are now properly migrated to the new style snap offset markers.
Removed obsolete Transport-Automation Record Options dialog.
Patch control dropdown menu in SONAR 1.0.2 uses multiple columns.
-
David Youd
- Commodore Fan
- Posts: 10
- Joined: 20/09/2003 - 21:51
- Location: California, USA
- Contact:
For any other newbies like myself out there, I found the online Tweak lessons to be exceedingly valuable for getting up to speed on all aspects of home studio recording: http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm
(I printed out all 270 pages of lessons and read it on the plane this weekend.)
For those buying the Sonar 3 Producer outright (not upgrading), I found it for $423.88 ($295 off the sticker price) at http://www.compumusic.com/product.asp?id=967
I'm finding it hard to wait.
Especially now that folks are figuring out that the particular flavor of Kontakt included with Sibelius3 is "closed", and cannot import existing Kontakt sounds available from non-Sibelius vendors.
(I printed out all 270 pages of lessons and read it on the plane this weekend.)
For those buying the Sonar 3 Producer outright (not upgrading), I found it for $423.88 ($295 off the sticker price) at http://www.compumusic.com/product.asp?id=967
I'm finding it hard to wait.
Especially now that folks are figuring out that the particular flavor of Kontakt included with Sibelius3 is "closed", and cannot import existing Kontakt sounds available from non-Sibelius vendors.-
David Youd
- Commodore Fan
- Posts: 10
- Joined: 20/09/2003 - 21:51
- Location: California, USA
- Contact:
Well good luck david .
I really hope paying all that money for these programs pays off i can only imagine it being a right bitch if ya end up sitting there and then realise.....OMG!!!!! its crap! noooooooooooooooooo!!!!! all that money!!!!! i could have bought <snip>'s with that and had my <snip> <censored> twice for that price <Snip> damn it!
personally i doubt i'll ever outline the same kinda costs some of the people here do simply because for all the work i get (which isnt much admittedly) i dont get payed enough lol.
but what i have got is free and does the job for me.
again though good luck with the remixing and looking forward to hearing the NON rejected remix's ya'll be flooding us with in the next coming months im sure
.
anythings better than listening to f$"£^" <censored> again.
.I really hope paying all that money for these programs pays off i can only imagine it being a right bitch if ya end up sitting there and then realise.....OMG!!!!! its crap! noooooooooooooooooo!!!!! all that money!!!!! i could have bought <snip>'s with that and had my <snip> <censored> twice for that price <Snip> damn it!
personally i doubt i'll ever outline the same kinda costs some of the people here do simply because for all the work i get (which isnt much admittedly) i dont get payed enough lol.
but what i have got is free and does the job for me
.again though good luck with the remixing and looking forward to hearing the NON rejected remix's ya'll be flooding us with in the next coming months im sure
.anythings better than listening to f$"£^" <censored> again.
this is the voice of the censor police....we know what your doing we know where you are and we WILL censor you! do not try to stop us.... or we will <Snip>
ps chris m8 that list of problems looks nearly as long as the list i got off the gf of "problems" ive got with my -
housekeeping
appearance
general odour
friends
lack of friends
so called friends
family
animals
more animals
music
music
more bloody music!
its all you ever do! why cant you just sit down and <Snip>
..... what i was meant to say was why do they even bother releasing programs if they have a list like that of errors?
rushing the program out and giving it too the casual musician...he gets hold of that encounters half them problems he aint going back again.
they lose custom in the end they go bankrupt cos there to bloody lazy and too money concious and they lose out.
SORT IT OUT YA BIG TIME MONEY SPENDING MICROSOFT TYPES BEFORE I <SNIP>
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!! should never have paid the censor police to make me seem a better <Snip> STOP THA<snip>!!!!!
housekeeping
appearance
general odour
friends
lack of friends
so called friends
family
animals
more animals
music
music
more bloody music!
its all you ever do! why cant you just sit down and <Snip>
..... what i was meant to say was why do they even bother releasing programs if they have a list like that of errors?
rushing the program out and giving it too the casual musician...he gets hold of that encounters half them problems he aint going back again.
they lose custom in the end they go bankrupt cos there to bloody lazy and too money concious and they lose out.
SORT IT OUT YA BIG TIME MONEY SPENDING MICROSOFT TYPES BEFORE I <SNIP>
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!! should never have paid the censor police to make me seem a better <Snip> STOP THA<snip>!!!!!
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David Youd
- Commodore Fan
- Posts: 10
- Joined: 20/09/2003 - 21:51
- Location: California, USA
- Contact:
$ for all that stuff was < 10^3 -- albeit, not by much. (This is totally at the noise level compared to the expenses I incurred last week when trading up for a larger house in the San Francisco bay area. Ouch!)Infamous wrote: I really hope paying all that money for these programs pays off i can only imagine it being a right bitch if ya end up sitting there and then realise.....OMG!!!!! its crap! noooooooooooooooooo!!!!! all that money!!!!! i could have bought <snip>'s with that and had my <snip> <censored> twice for that price <Snip> damn it!
personally i doubt i'll ever outline the same kinda costs some of the people here do simply because for all the work i get (which isnt much admittedly) i dont get payed enough lol.
but what i have got is free and does the job for me
However, free is good!
Being a newbie, I'd love to wade in a pool of musical musings from a veritable wordsmith such as yourself, and learn what kind of free setup you have, what it does for you, and what you think its limitations are. I would have benefited from playing around with such a free setup, if for no other reason than to make more experience-based purchases down the road. So... watcha work with?I used to use fasttracker2 and then madtracker and modplug to write most of my music (all of them free) but now i use jeskola buzz which is a kinda "organic" music making program, you use "generators" and "effect" units to create your noises, its pretty hard to learn but then what isnt?
but the difference in sound was immediately apparent to everyone so it must be doing me SOME good.
its impressive feature is being able to link up with the likes of reason and cubase and leach off the nice lil features u can add vsti's from ANYWERE and its freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!
downside is its hard to learn and if u do something wrong it tends to crash.
but i can live with that.
but the difference in sound was immediately apparent to everyone so it must be doing me SOME good.
its impressive feature is being able to link up with the likes of reason and cubase and leach off the nice lil features u can add vsti's from ANYWERE and its freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!
downside is its hard to learn and if u do something wrong it tends to crash.
but i can live with that.
Ah Trackers that are free! Cant beat them dont you think Infamous?Infamous wrote:I used to use fasttracker2 and then madtracker and modplug to write most of my music (all of them free)
Make for good musical idea bouncers!
Cant wait to meet you at Bitlive reunion,you still going?
Soz i know not quite with this thread.
You any good at boxing Infamous? One of my other interests!
M.A.F
Not to be too pretentious you understand.
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dan gillgrass
- Built from Stella and KFC
- Posts: 1399
- Joined: 07/04/2003 - 19:52
- Location: Azeroth
- Contact:
looks like i deffo wont be going to manchester which seriously does suck donkey dick big time, but circumstances go against me 
Boxing hehe, i did kickboxing when i was a wee nipper and a bit of judo which was fun...till i lost my 2 front teeth (milk ones) being thrown over a boys shoulder in front of my mum who promptly made me leave.
Kickboxing was fun though........and dan mobile least of my problems now lol, i think she got permanent PMT and if she reads this ever i am such a dead person lol.
p.s dan i never did get your moby no at bit would like to rectify that asap hope ya dont mind me old mucker.
ohhhhh!
yeah and trackers, there great if u got a few saw/sine noises hanging about you can just fiddle about to get the notes right and then recopy into your fav prog and tadda! you look ultra clever lol.
I LOVE TRACKERS!!!!!!
Boxing hehe, i did kickboxing when i was a wee nipper and a bit of judo which was fun...till i lost my 2 front teeth (milk ones) being thrown over a boys shoulder in front of my mum who promptly made me leave
.Kickboxing was fun though........and dan mobile least of my problems now lol, i think she got permanent PMT and if she reads this ever i am such a dead person lol.
p.s dan i never did get your moby no at bit would like to rectify that asap hope ya dont mind me old mucker.
ohhhhh!
yeah and trackers, there great if u got a few saw/sine noises hanging about you can just fiddle about to get the notes right and then recopy into your fav prog and tadda! you look ultra clever lol.
I LOVE TRACKERS!!!!!!
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'Emphyrian'
- Newbie
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 14/09/2003 - 13:57
- Location: Brighton, Uk
- Contact: