Matrix Revolutions!

Talk freely about the scene, the world of remixing, or anything off-topic unsuitable for the "Fun Forum".
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arvirus
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Post by arvirus »

attention! for people who dind't see the movie: spoilers ahead!











Sonic Wanderer wrote:Hey! What happened. Arvirus posted a "I didn't like it and stuff" post, and now it's gone?!?!?!?!?!?
after thinking about it i changed my mind and deleted the post, sorry. :)
i still think it wasn't as good as it could be. but after reading some other peoples thoughts in the internet it grew on me and still makes me think.

questions which remain unanswered are (imho):
-why could neo stop the sentinels in the real world?
-what's the meaning of the merowinger?
-is the architect human or machine?

and the most important one:
-was it all a game between the oracle and the architect?

/arvirus
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Post by tas »

I thought it was a bag of rubbish... effects a plenty, but the film was as thin as a piece of paper.

No, didn't like it at all.
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Post by putzi »

Tas wrote: ...didn't like it at all.
Isn´t this a quote from the end of DHS´ Apidya-remix?
The one with the Magneto-crackle, DHS? ;-)
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Post by Sonic Wanderer »

Even more SPOILERS AHEAD!!! Do NOT read unless you've seen Matrix Revolutions!!!!
arvirus wrote:attention! for people who dind't see the movie: spoilers ahead!

questions which remain unanswered are (imho):
-why could neo stop the sentinels in the real world?
-what's the meaning of the merowinger?
-is the architect human or machine?

and the most important one:
-was it all a game between the oracle and the architect?

/arvirus
Here's my view of things:

Neo can stop the sentinels in the real world, because he is the chosen one. Information gained from the first Matrix movie, suggests that the chosen one is a conscience born within the Matrix itself, and not someone pluged-in. Note that there has been several "chosen ones" before Neo. Much like agent Smith do in Revolutions, Neo's conscience has probably taken over a body that no longer served a pupose. He can therefore exist on both levels simultaneously. Because of the fact that he from start is a part of the program, he is directly connected to the entire machine system. Thus he is able to affect the machines in the real world. There is no way for us to know the extent of his full involvment in the system.

The Merovingian has not general purpose. He is just a "thug" program that got bored of serving his original purpose as an "ordinary" program, and started kind of a "mafia" organisation. He just happens to be in the way of Neo and the others, because he's gained so much control after is "break-out" and happened to have stuff they needed. The "mafia" bit is put to show greatly with the Trainman-bit. They smuggle programs that want exile, into the matrix without the system knowing of it. For a heavy price, I imagine.

The Architecht is a program, designed to construct, and uphold, the Matrix. That is made clear in Reloaded. In the end of Revolutions he drops a remark. "What do you take me for? Human?", wich is said in such a way he's offended to be compared with humans.

The relationship between the Oracle and the Architecht is that they both were designed to create the Matrix. They chose two ways of going about it, though. The Architecht relies on equaltions and mathematical probabilities, while the Oracle rely on the element of choise (also made clear in Reloaded). It was the "choise" bit that made the Matrix work completely for the firsat time. The Oracle, not much unlike the Merovingian, has grown tired of the system and the fighting, and seeks a new solutions, wich she think is to create peace wetween machines and humans. That's why she helps Neo.

What do we learn from this, then? That the answers to much of the last film lies in information from the first two films. Especially the second one. This makes Reloaded a really important part of the puzzle, containing a great deal of revealing information. All three movies are equally important to making the whole thing come together. I think it's one of the greatest trilogies in history of motion picture.
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Post by arvirus »

thanx for your answers, sonic.

after spending the whole weekend in the matrix-forum i like revolutions and reloaded better and better.

here is my view of the meaning behind the 3 matrix-movies:
the most important character is the oracle! she had one aim: to end the war between man and machines. i don't think she helps neo. i think she USES him! it all was a game planned by the oracle from the start! she gave selected persons information:
1 she told morpheus that he will find the one
2 she told trinity that she will fall in love with the one
3 she told neo that he os NOT the one! but she gave him the "programming command" "you _are_ the one". and how did she do that? with the cookie!
so the game starts and everybody does what he/she is supposed to do. but even the oracle didn't know how the game would end. simply because she is a programm and not a real "oracle". she only makes the humans believe that she is an oracle and knows the future.
that's why at the end of revolutions the architect says that she "played a dangerous game".

great movies and a great solution! i will watch revolutiosn again next week.

/arvirus
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Post by Sonic Wanderer »

Nice thoughts. But how do the "programmed cookie"-story explain the "exist-in-both-worlds-and-affects-sentinels-in-reality" phenomena?

I think the Oracles mumbo-jumbo of Neo *not* being the one in the first movie is to make Neo discover that he really *is*, by himself, and not because she says so.

And yes, the Oracle probably uses Neo a bit to get what she wants, but why doesn't she use anybody else? If that "cookie"-stunt was true, she could have fed an army.
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Post by arvirus »

Sonic Wanderer wrote:Nice thoughts. But how do the "programmed cookie"-story explain the "exist-in-both-worlds-and-affects-sentinels-in-reality" phenomena?
it doesn't. but i'm working on it :)
I think the Oracles mumbo-jumbo of Neo *not* being the one in the first movie is to make Neo discover that he really *is*, by himself, and not because she says so.
i would replace "make neo discover" with "make neo believe"! because he simply isn't the one before she tells him that he isn't! *my mind bends*
by telling him that he is NOT the one she gives him a push and he is beginning to believe that he is the one!
And yes, the Oracle probably uses Neo a bit to get what she wants, but why doesn't she use anybody else? If that "cookie"-stunt was true, she could have fed an army.
simply because she needs only 1 "the one"! i think neo is as good as any other guy. maybe she picked him because he looks so good :)
(and the hot chick trinity wouldn't fall in love with an ugly guy :lol: )

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Post by tas »

Still think it was Pants... each to their own i suppose :)
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Post by Sonic Wanderer »

arvirus wrote:....simply because she needs only 1 "the one"! i think neo is as good as any other guy. maybe she picked him because he looks so good :)
(and the hot chick trinity wouldn't fall in love with an ugly guy :lol: )

/arvirus
This *still* don't explain how Neo is able to stop the sentinels in the real world.
I'm still going with the "born-within-the-Matrix-and-is-connected-on-a-deeper-level" theory. 8)
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Post by CraigG »

Sonic Wanderer wrote:This *still* don't explain how Neo is able to stop the sentinels in the real world.
I'm still going with the "born-within-the-Matrix-and-is-connected-on-a-deeper-level" theory. 8)
It's simple: Zion is also the Matrix, but it's "level two". This explains how Neo stopped the sentinels, and also why he could "see" without his eyes (just as he could in Matrix "level one". Bear in mind that most humans accept the Matrix level one, but those that don't are thrown into such a harrowing situation when they "escape" that they believe Zion real, even when it's not.

Neo is a program, designed to fix the matrix if major problems happen. He was activated by Morpheus and acted as an anti-virus program against Smith.

This was probably not intended in Matrix, but the writers were winging it with 2 and 3 anyway, so there are major changes. (For instance, in the original film, I reckon the Matrix = false, Zion = real world thing was the case, but in film 2 and 3, this has, in my view, changed to Zion also = false.)

The cookie is also a very obvious programming analogy.

Another thing I reckon happened before is that the Matrix kept getting rebooted when problems occurred, by the paranoid architect. But this time, Neo has been able to apply his anti-virus/defreg, enabling the Matrix to evolve (note how the child, a "redundant" program, is, with the help of the Oracle's cookie, able to rebuild Matrix level one all by herself).
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Post by CraigG »

Sonic Wanderer wrote:All three movies are equally important to making the whole thing come together. I think it's one of the greatest trilogies in history of motion picture.
I wouldn't agree with that, although they are fun to deconstruct. The second film was dire, and the second and third don't, for me, fit well with the first. On its own, the first would be heralded as something of a classic, but this status has been eroded by the other two movies.
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Post by tom »

On its own, the first would be heralded as something of a classic, but this status has been eroded by the other two movies.
Well, to be honest the first MATRIX was some kind of BLADE RUNNER,
a perfect movie without any need of a 2'nd or 3'rd version to continue.
BUT i liked the sequel a lot and i can't await to see the 3'rd... even the ANNIMATRIX was a nice DVD to watch :wink:
It's a question of taste, but on the other hand MATRIX is a smart story and a must see.

TOM::::..
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Post by arvirus »

CraigG wrote: It's simple: Zion is also the Matrix, but it's "level two".
NO! please! not the MWAM (matrix within a matrix)-theory again! :x it was already disproved in endless forum-threads!

/arvirus
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Post by arvirus »

tom wrote:a perfect movie without any need of a 2'nd or 3'rd version to continue.
according to the wachowsky bros matrix was intended as a triology from the start!
tom wrote:BUT i liked the sequel a lot and i can't await to see the 3'rd... even the ANNIMATRIX was a nice DVD to watch :wink:
It's a question of taste, but on the other hand MATRIX is a smart story and a must see
absolutely! i will see revolutions for the 3rd time today and it won't be the last time for sure!

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Post by tom »

:lol:
my brother Michael has seen it already,too. And he told me that he can't understand all the bad reviews, he said he liked M3 a lot :wink:

cheers
TOM::::..
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