SID's in remixes

[trace]

I really like ppl who comments on remixes with SID or SID'ish sounds in them and say 'I don't like or I hate sid's i remixes.' They are in the wrong place to say they hate SID. SID is the base of all remixes.
Correct me if i'm wrong :p

[analoq]

There is a defensible argument in that if someone wanted to hear a SID they'd simply listen to the original; the reason they seek a remix is to hear an interpretation of that .SID - the expectation being it is both musically and sonically different from the original.

To me, SID sounds in remixes are like AutoTune or drumloops or anything else in electronic music; it can be used well (in which case I like) or it can be used poorly (in which case I don't like).

My conclusion: You're not wrong, but the folks who complain aren't necessarily wrong either.
cheers.

[trace]

True. I forgot to say that it's how the sid elements are implemented
It depends on if it's done with good taste or not

[tomsk]

Yeah, this is a subject close to my heart. I love the sound of the sid, and if implemented well it still sounds great. Often I prefer mixes with original sid mixed in, almost list a gentle nod to the roots of the original. I still recall Chris Abbotts first Back in Time Sanxion remix, with odd bits of SID/SID drums cleverly mixed in with authentic beats and new instruments, and it sent a shiver down my spine...lovely. Mind in a box's Last Ninja tune is a good example of enhanced SID sounds, giving a feel for the original whilst manging to make a powerful new mix.

[Chris Abbott]

Aw, thanks... the world was young, everything was fresh, Boz was clean-shaven... But yeah, I think people shouldn't be allowed to say "I hate SID in remixes", just like they shouldn't be able to say "I hate guitars in remixes". They should say "The SID integration in this remix isn't done very well". Which is probably what they mean, in the end.

Chris

[beyond]

*sigh* We had a review of RSR where the author said something in the lines of "I utterly hate C64 music and its sounds - so this is of course utter crap", and we had a concert review going "This wasn't [noise rock] as I expected it be so. The crowd loved it. I hated it. 0 stars". As Chris says there are different ways of expressing an opinion and not everyone is equipped with a "I need to be informative and objective in a way that people get my point" filter. Some critics you need to know before you can get anything out of reading a review of theirs - which makes them object for a review themselves When people say that they don't like parts of a remix then its simply because they don't share the same preferences in music. As I see it, disregarding that we own a very little piece of music history here, we are here to experiment and challenge what's already here. It's art, boldly said. And art has never been appreciated when new.

So, everyone's a critic. We all know what we think of a Bach organ concert even though we don't have the skills to write something even close to it. It's about abillities and ambitions which rarely are on the same level. By the end of the day I really don't care about if people don't like what I or PPOT do with SID drums or other sounds. So people are free to improve what we do here or just listen to our SID drums++

[k_rostoen]

I am one of those who have said I don't like SID in remixes. Of course, when implemented well it's all OK, but in general I want to hear a new rendition of a SID tune, not just a remake of it.

[Razmo]

In some cases, I find that you even HAVE to use the real SID in a remix, or it will fail utterly... this is especially true when complicated ringmodulation, sync effects or waveform combinations are involved in the original, that simply are so unique to the score, that it's unavoidable to use it simply because no synth other than the SID can create that sound, or at least it is so horribly impossble to analyse how it was created.

Some tunes with this that I can recall are as mentioned Sanxion, that has a destinctive rythmic feel that is heavily effekted, and making any remix without it would not bring the "soul" of the tune.

I had this problem myself when I remixed R1D1, which is why the heavy synced sounds after the main melodylines is actually sampled directly from a 6581 SID chip (effects processed afterwards naturally).

Summa Summarum; I'd use SID sounds if the remix would loose the originals "spirit" without it... only when moderns synths can improve the experience will I use them (which is fortunately most of the time hehe).

In fact, many of Hubbards tunes have these weird rythmic effects that call for it... he had a tendency to ringmod and sync melodylines with rhythmic parts rather often, and I believe he probably had much fun just "switching these on" to see what random useful things he could come up with

[NecroPolo]

'Dunno. I like SIDs in remixes

http://noname.c64.org/csdb/sid/?id=42292

http://noname.c64.org/csdb/sid/?id=43149

http://noname.c64.org/csdb/sid/?id=42200

http://noname.c64.org/csdb/sid/?id=43148


Considering RKO stuff I really can't get some moaning reactions whenever a remixer uses authentic C64 sounds, especially when the actual moaning someone has no any SID remixing attempt under his name. If some folks hate SID sounds then what brought'em to listening to SID remixes, anyway...?

[Infamous]

I agree with razmo.. some sid tunes require the original sid noise to be present for it to keep its character (armalyte i did originally without the arpeggio's and it sounded.. awful) and indeed alot of hubbard and galway stuff sound better with a bit of sid thrown in.

I don't think i've ever said I hate a tune that uses sid i usually just refer to them as 1:1 and if its well done and still sounds good then its fine by me.

[RunStop64]

I prefer not to sample the original SID in any form and make my remix from scratch and by ear. But I also love the SID sound so I definitely include some SID'ish elements in my remixes to keep the spirit alive. Like most C64 people, I just love the SID sound so it's hard not to include it tbh. But it depends entirely on the remix for me.

[Kate-Z]

To my ears, SID sounds have never sounded better, and depending on their use, I love them in remixes. Agree with comments above as well, sometimes its impossible to do a remix/arrangement without authentic real sid sounds... it just wouldnt sound right. Classic example is the wibble/noteplex/arpeggio sound. In some original SIDs its used purely to achieve a chord in one channel... whereas in others its intrinsic to the sound of the overall piece.. eg Ocean Loader. In one of my own works I found that when covering Matt Gray's tusker.. it just didnt sound "right" without the little blippy lead melody instrument.. not to mention the drum thumps!

Ofcourse.. I suppose it depends on whether you mean the original SID in the track, or the instruments recreated.. I tend to do both.

Either way, more often than not I think having the SID style instruments (real or synthesized) can add a lot to a piece... but again, it depends on the piece.. it wouldnt work for example so well in one of Markus Schneider's magnificent orchestral stylee pieces

I'm a big fan of the SID fusion track that is the Green Beret Commando infiltration piece, I think its clever, well put together and very listenable - ofcourse I love both tracks its fused from. I dont know whether the composer literally bolted the SIDs in chunks together, or recreated the instrumentation - ultimately it doesent matter, I loved it.

SID in Remixes FTW

[Mayhem]

Hey... didn't realise you were here Kate... love your Sceptre tracks

As for the topic, I think I rather agree with Kate... and it wholly depends on the mood and style of the track. Some remixes benefit from having a little nod to the past, while others can easily survive without anything SID in them.